Leaf Fans ....... how low can they go ?

invictus43 said:
I hear what you're saying Fin..but one player doesn't make a team..or two players.. The line is extremely fine between winning and losing. Tampa won the cup and had almost every player in the lineup and lost in the first round the next. Same with Ottawa..4 straight to Pitt. Montreal made a run to the conference finals..then dropped like a rock. Most of the players were still there. It's coaching, confidence, luck, injuries. The draft too is more important now for sure. Edmonton has been drafting high lately..they're stockpiling players..but they're still stuck in the basement. I suspect they'll do well shortly with the number of high first-rounders they've been drafting..but they still need the other ingredients as well. There's really no easy answer unfortunately.
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yep, but it seems other teams seem to keep finding it (be it drafting, luck of players wanting to play there, or signing free agents (stupid florida)). Every year theres a new excuse out of leafs camp explaining why we suck!
 
big time leafs fan here...I watch every leaf game every season, and look forward to the season every year.
but this is the first year that I'm not looking forward to the season (if there is one!)

for me the anticipation just isn't there anymore...I don't think I can ever stop blaming Burke for the Kessel trade.
Burke is too stubborn, he over valued Kessel...and was too blind to see that he over paid to get him
(btw, Kessel had wanted out of Boston too!)

and IIRC, Burke said he would still redo that trade, even if he knew that Leaf draft pick would be Seguin.....phh!
 
FiReSTaRT said:
Blind loyalty to a faceless corporation disguised as regional pride. The corporation knows it doesn't need to offer its fans anything, not even a decently performing team because they'll still be making a killing off the suckers who pay through all of their orifices for overpriced tickets, junk food and Made in China merchandise. As long as the fans are stupid enough to be ripped off on that scale, MLE will continue fleecing them without offering anything in return. That's why I'm boycotting them and encouraging others to do so for as long as they continue raping the fans up the rectum. We're not talking about European clubs with deep ties to the community that go way back in history. We're talking about a for-profit corporation with a licence to print money due to fan stupidity.
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well said!
 
Fingolfin said:
this actually makes no sense...
the corporation hires a GM to run the team... the team makes the playoffs, the corporation makes more money. Its in their best interest to put together a winning product. They just haven't because the leafs suck and management has made some quesitonable decessions.

blaming MLSE for the leafs woes is like blaming the gun for killing people.

yes, the fans follow blindly, but that doesn't mean MLSE isn't trying to put together a quality product.

This all falls on Burke IMO. He's had 4 yeras to turn it around, he hasn't.
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in any company, crap runs down hill. your workers are only as good as their supervisor officer expects them to be.

you can bring the greatest GM in history and bring harry houdini back from the grave. and the two of them still wont do jack

the leafs are tops in ticket sales, season seat waiting list, tv revenues, merchandise revenues. all this with a failing product. strictly as a business decision, the company will be crazy to bring a winning team here... why offer your customers a better product and raise their expectation levels when you can make maximum money with the poor product? what if your customers get used to the better product and demand it? why set that benchmark when there is no need to?

in toronto all you need is the illusion of trying and the dream of making. that will generate maximum revenue.

think of this, when was the last time the leafs went out and signed a superstar in their prime. NEVER . the only star in his prime we had was wendel clark who we drafted and we got sundin as a trade for clark.

we NEVER have gone and signed a star player approaching or in his prime. there is no mandate to sign stars, there is no mandate to win, only to make money.

we do not have a single owner who may want to win out of pride. we have as some one mentioned a "faceless corporation. that views it as strictly a cash grab.

i love the leafs but its true. infact the city of toronto is probabu the worst sports city in the last 20 years
 
Disclaimer: not a huge sports follower. But I can see the appeal of wanting to take one's family downtown to have a special night and see a game, whether it be hockey, baseball, whatever. I'd be far more forgiving of the Leafs and their dismal record if it was at least *somewhat* affordable for the average joe to see a game. At least with baseball it's still doable to casually spend a summer afternoon at the dome (just as long as you don't get fleeced buying beer!).
 
wikeke said:
and IIRC, Burke said he would still redo that trade, even if he knew that Leaf draft pick would be Seguin.....phh!
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He's off his rocker then, he's only saying that to save face.

At the time it was a gamble, doing that deal today with the facts on the table you would have to be complete loonie to pull the trigger.
 
short stop said:
Disclaimer: not a huge sports follower. But I can see the appeal of wanting to take one's family downtown to have a special night and see a game, whether it be hockey, baseball, whatever. I'd be far more forgiving of the Leafs and their dismal record if it was at least *somewhat* affordable for the average joe to see a game. At least with baseball it's still doable to casually spend a summer afternoon at the dome (just as long as you don't get fleeced buying beer!).
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I hear ya. And not to argue against the cost factor, but they charge what people will pay. I remember when they raised ticket prices and everyone said "How can they do that!!" Well, people pay it. They still sell out nearly every game. So price-wise, I don't blame them. Putting together a good team? Well..that's the Toronto Sports Virus sucking the life out of them.. :-)
 
Jayv said:
He's off his rocker then, he's only saying that to save face.

At the time it was a gamble, doing that deal today with the facts on the table you would have to be complete loonie to pull the trigger.
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Kessel isn't exactly garbage..let's keep that in mind..Seguin is playing on a much better team. So it's hard to compare. Rob Pearson looked awesome playing with Lindros!! :-) At the time, I didn't mind the deal..I suspected if the Leafs were allowed to draft they'd screw it up somehow... :-( Which reinforces Fin's argument..
 
If you were the GM of TML today would you trade Sequin and a 1st rounder for Kessel?
 
Jayv said:
If you were the GM of TML today would you trade Sequin and a 1st rounder for Kessel?
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I know what you're trying to say and probably not..but..like you say, when he made the deal, there were other factors in play.
 
invictus43 said:
Good luck with that! Season's tickets has a waiting list of like 7 years..
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And that is why the only way we'll ever get a winning team is through blind luck or a new franchise.
 
not saying Kessel isn't good...he is what he is...a shooter, that's good for 30-40 goals a year, which is great.....but not the franchise player that Burke thinks he is.
(although, I remember during the WJC..I remember commentators talking like he was the american version of Crosby - Ovechkin the russian version)

also, yes Seguin is playing on a MUCH better team...but no one can say for certain how he would have played, if the Leafs had drafted him...
who knows, he could have been like Yzerman when he was drafted by Detroit....it's even possible that he'd lead the league in scoring..who knows? but I digress....
(although I wouldn't put Seguin in the Yzerman and Sakic franchise player level...I definitely see him in the Eric Staal and Giroux tier)

I know there was no guarantee that the Leafs would be 2nd that year, but come on Burke, be realistic...the team stunk, and he MUST have known the pick would be a high one.
the fact that he was willing to chance that high pick for a Kessel type player...not smart....or wager the future just to squeak into the playoffs...not smart.

also, Kessel wanted out of Boston, he could have been had for much less, but instead Burke sweetens the deal for Boston and adds a few more high picks into the deal...phh!
I don't mind Kessel on the Leafs....I just think they gave up TOO much to get him.

in fairness, Burke has made some good acquisitions.
yeah Gardiner and Rielly seem to have a huge upside, but are they franchise players? I hope so......is Seguin a franchise player? he certainly looks to be, like many expected.
(btw, the fist pump from Rielly's father at the draft was brilliant)

ok enough ranting....as Morpheus said: "What happened, happened and could not have happened any other way"
go Leafs go!
 
Long suffering Leafs supporter since the early 70's. Pretty bad when my fondest memories are from the 92-94 seasons. One of my mates switched to the Sens two years ago. Couldn't take it anymore.

I blame the fans and local media mostly for the results. Has anyone read Leafs AbomiNation?
 
...and they still keep selling out games...all I can do is laugh and scratch my head
 
invictus43 said:
I hear ya. And not to argue against the cost factor, but they charge what people will pay. I remember when they raised ticket prices and everyone said "How can they do that!!" Well, people pay it. They still sell out nearly every game. So price-wise, I don't blame them. Putting together a good team? Well..that's the Toronto Sports Virus sucking the life out of them.. :-)
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Very true. And I guess that just circles back to the argument that Leafs fans are incredibly stupid. :p
 
short stop said:
Very true. And I guess that just circles back to the argument that Leafs fans are incredibly stupid. :p
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I like to think I'm incredibly optimistic! I've also been told I don't have a good grip on reality. But at least I no longer think maybe this year they will make the playoffs....
 
losttourist said:
I like to think I'm incredibly optimistic! I've also been told I don't have a good grip on reality. But at least I no longer think maybe this millennium they will make the playoffs....
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Corrected :cool:
 
short stop said:
Disclaimer: not a huge sports follower. But I can see the appeal of wanting to take one's family downtown to have a special night and see a game, whether it be hockey, baseball, whatever. I'd be far more forgiving of the Leafs and their dismal record if it was at least *somewhat* affordable for the average joe to see a game. At least with baseball it's still doable to casually spend a summer afternoon at the dome (just as long as you don't get fleeced buying beer!).
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FYI, an uneventful hockey game is still more exciting to watch than an action packed baseball game....:)
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