Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%
  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%
  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%

  • Total voters
    111
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

I strongly recommend against lying, even little white lies.

being silent can't get you in any legal trouble, but lying certainly can.
A cop catching you in a stupid lie can get PC or RS out of that.

I agree, I only brought up the option of lying in the context of living in a real police state. In such a situation, the truth can get you into as much trouble as a lie.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

blah blah blah...i am so printing out that section of the HTA and keeping a copy on me...i shall wait until i am on private property spot popo and proceed to yak away...i wonder how many times around the mall they will follow me...
 
Not just possession. Possession, making, and sexual assault. Suspended with pay (as usual), and stay away from parks and schools. You can't make this **** up.

http://www.thestar.com/article/1114070--durham-police-officer-faces-child-porn-sex-assault-charges

Wasn't there another officer in the GTA region charged with pedophilia or something last year? Geez a cop touching kids is a bad as a priest. Lets hope the police handle it better than the vatican and do the right thing.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

I found an update to the National Post article previously referred to.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...ng-after-she-couldnt-provide-a-breath-sample/

edit: Comments on the article are interesting. Granted, the whole thing stemmed from an officer seeing her make an error while driving. And yes, perhaps there is an element of truth to the question concerning whether she should have a valid driving license or not. But if there is a question to the validity of her driver's license, it shouldn't have been dealt with in the manner that they did.

Cop should have simply written her a ticket for disobeying a sign, or being on the wrong side of the road, or some other such thing ... not opening the whole breath-sample can of worms.
 
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Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

I found an update to the National Post article previously referred to.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...ng-after-she-couldnt-provide-a-breath-sample/

edit: Comments on the article are interesting. Granted, the whole thing stemmed from an officer seeing her make an error while driving. And yes, perhaps there is an element of truth to the question concerning whether she should have a valid driving license or not. But if there is a question to the validity of her driver's license, it shouldn't have been dealt with in the manner that they did.

Cop should have simply written her a ticket for disobeying a sign, or being on the wrong side of the road, or some other such thing ... not opening the whole breath-sample can of worms.

That is crazy man.

I had to read this 4 times before I could understand it, my brain simply refused such stupidity.

A Superintendent of Motor Vehicles adjudicator identified only as “M. Labell” issued a four-page decision on June 9 that confirmed Ms. MacDonald’s three-month suspension and fine for failing to comply with the demand for a breath sample in spite of being “given 15 opportunities.”

The adjudicator ordered Ms. MacDonald to get an Interlock ignition breath-testing unit installed on her car, register for the responsible driver program and pay the towing charges:

“While you may have a medical condition with your lungs, based on the evidence I have before me, I am not convinced that you were not capable of providing an adequate sample of your breath into the (Approved Screening Device). Therefore I don’t accept it as an excuse for failing to comply with the demand.”
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

blah blah blah...i am so printing out that section of the HTA and keeping a copy on me...i shall wait until i am on private property spot popo and proceed to yak away...i wonder how many times around the mall they will follow me...

It is not so much the HTA definition, that IS vague I agree. It is the case law judgements.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

No, I'm talking in general.

I've seen orders from the government that were so poorly worded that we couldn't make head nor tail of what the inspector wanted ... and it was concerning a piece of equipment that, upon inspection (not just my opinion - the whole JHSC got involved), met every current standard you care to name for that type of equipment. The order should never have been issued in the first place. The carefully worded response letter that was crafted and scrutinized during a long meeting was very interesting to read ... one has to be very careful when telling someone in power that they don't know what they are talking about. Issue went away ...

I've had the dreaded phone call starting with "the ministry was just here ..." followed by an explanation of what they wanted, followed by my reaction which basically amounted to "are you serious? why would you want to do that? that doesn't make sense", but with additional expletives that can't be mentioned here. (the person on the other end of that phone call is someone I've worked with for 10 years). This was on a piece of equipment that again met every applicable standard to the extent that we know how to do it, and the thing that the government wanted to do would have placed it OUT of compliance by allowing the machine to be started while someone was inside ... we never did what the government wanted, it would have been INSANE to do that - the issue eventually went away.

Automation and robotics is so much fun ... you get to deal with this all the time, and when something happens on a piece of equipment that you've had involvement with, you sure hear about it.

I know from friends that are in the construction industry, that it's just as disconnected from reality over there. Good luck with that reciprocating saw.

Here's another one to chew on. If you are working at heights (3+ metres up) you are supposed to tie off with a harness so that you can't fall down. Fair enough. When working on a roof, how do you get to a position where you can tie off ... without first being tied off? Not very easy to do when you're building the very thing that you could hypothetically tie off to after you're done. Once you get started, it's okay, but someone has to put that first structure up there and secure it ...

Ever see a transport truck driving down the road with a ton of snow blowing off its roof creating a visibility hazard behind it (and possibly throwing chunks of ice at following motorists)? Guess what, the top of that truck is above the height for which tie-off is required and there's nothing to tie-off to up there. So the truck driver isn't allowed to go up there to clear off the top of the truck. Not everyone can park their trailer in an indoor yard overnight ...

There's an article in today's Toronto Sun about how regulations governing how school bus contracts are handed out are killing local school bus operators due to too much red tape.

Over-regulated!

I 100 % see your point on regulation.

At this point, I do corporate finance/M&A type work. But the legislation/regulations are like ridiculous, and can't be navigated by anyone just reading the law.

Short example. Whenever someone issues securities, they have to either have a prospectus or an exemption.
the point of a prospectus ( in line with the main purpose of securities laws) is to protect the public. Now I am sure as adults we all have some investments / nest eggs / put away and some of that will probably be in a public company somewhere through either a mutual fund or directly.

But has anyone ever read a prospectus?.... have you ever met anyone that read one? I write them and I don't read them when I invest.
It costs about 2-300,000 in fees for a company to go public (just for the lawyers), but who the hell are we really protecting?... nobody! The public doesnt' benefit from a prospectus, its all purchased by the banks which retail them out usually through their in house mutual funds.

If i wanted to write things that no one would read! i would write a novel!
So yeah but thats just one example of lots of time and money being spent with very little benefit.

but with regards to regulators, some are definately better than others. They also have a chronic understaffing issue which doesn't help their service. I have been lucky in that the regulatory agencies I deal with usually have to deal with money, and thus are way better funded and staffed (eg. CRA, securities authorities, TSX(not govt but has a regulatory function)

But I admit, in real life, the only time I have ever pulled the lawyer card is when i am dealing with gov't.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

blah blah blah...i am so printing out that section of the HTA and keeping a copy on me...i shall wait until i am on private property spot popo and proceed to yak away...i wonder how many times around the mall they will follow me...


On a list of things to do when I get pulled over, pulling out the HTA or case law is probably next to the last thing on my list.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

On a list of things to do when I get pulled over, pulling out the HTA or case law is probably next to the last thing on my list.

I would have to agree there. It's just begging the officer to say, "Then you shouldn't have a problem arguing these 5 tickets, that are valid on their face."
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

I would have to agree there. It's just begging the officer to say, "Then you shouldn't have a problem arguing these 5 tickets, that are valid on their face."

I see what you did there!!! haha
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Are we talking about the general populace or this board as a segment of the population. Because I think its different.

Being a cop or a crown is a thankless job. Well then again so is mine but at least I get paid well for it.

Hows is being a cop a thankless job? You get paid boatloads of cash, and get awesome benefits. Plus you have a free pass to **** with people. Having a bad day? Write someone a ******** ticket. If recipient of ******** ticket manages to sufficiently smothers your *** with kisses then you'll reduce their charge or if they did a REALY good job you'll let em off with a warning. Otherwise you have some over-time pay to look forward to in court... which is in addition to the tremendous amount of money your making already. And due to professional courtesy between cops you can count on a clean driving record for life regardless of how much of a dick you choose to be on the road on or off duty.

Also, if you happen to die on the job the you get a funeral service that rivals the pope's
police funeral newmarket.jpg


If I'm not mistaken, survivor benefits for cops are pretty sweet too althought I couldn't find any details on it.

Anyways, I'd say cops have quite A LOT to be thankful for.
 
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Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

I guess we have different interpretations of "boatloads" and "tremendous"

I also think its interesting that you think "a free pass to **** with people" as a job perk.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

What's that next to the lead cruiser? A Borg?
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

If you think there is no harm in answering a cop's nosy questions,
please think again. Here is a simple scenario, fictional but plausible.

Cop: Where are you coming from?
Biker: I just had a donut at Tim's on O'Rourke Street.
Cop: WELL! There was just an armed robbery at that place,
so you are under arrest for suspicion of armed robbery.

You can try to tell me that no such thing can happen.
But save your breath (or fingers), because I won't believe you.

I will not bare my belly for the jackboots. I won't even start.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

If you think there is no harm in answering a cop's nosy questions,
please think again. Here is a simple scenario, fictional but plausible.

Cop: Where are you coming from?
Biker: I just had a donut at Tim's on O'Rourke Street.
Cop: WELL! There was just an armed robbery at that place,
so you are under arrest for suspicion of armed robbery.

You can try to tell me that no such thing can happen.
But save your breath (or fingers), because I won't believe you.

I will not bare my belly for the jackboots. I won't even start.

Even worse if you happen to be a minority or if you have poor language skills.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

I guess we have different interpretations of "boatloads" and "tremendous"
National average in 2009 for non-elderly single males is $37,900. I couldn't find a constable in the 2010 income disclosure that was paid less than $100,000. Don't you think that's a lot? Especially considering how much it costs to get trained and and hired as a cop? ~$400 to apply and ~$7500 for police academy.

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil21a-eng.htm
http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/2011/munic11b.html


I also think its interesting that you think "a free pass to **** with people" as a job perk.
I don't see how that's interesting
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

they only disclose 100k plus... thats the threshold... so of course everyone on that list is over 100.

and its still a thankless job.
the fact that ppl on this board seem to think that all cops do is write traffic tickets and mess with "innocent" riders essentially proves the point.
 
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