Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly..... | Page 258 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%
  • Total voters
    111
Rob MacLennan said:
This guy: Kills three cops and a dog. Got messed up somewhat, but is alive to face trial.

Jayland Walker: Runs from police, with no visible weapon, and is shot many, many times in the back.

More of this happening every day and it's not tough to do the math.
Click to expand...

The math is.. if you surrender and follow orders, you don't get shot... usually. There are lots of examples of violent criminals surrendering "peacefully" and getting their day in court while someone robbing a convenience store with a knife gets killed. It's all to do with compliance and fearful police.
 
Evoex said:
Wasn’t there 5 or more responding officers?

If we assume they had standard issue Glocks then that’s around 16 rounds on average per mag depending on model, etc.

That’s roughly 80 bullets right there before reloads.
Click to expand...
See edit to my post. I still think the hit rate is much higher than I expected in that situation. IIRC, police hit rate is normally something near 30%. Maybe Akron has them train more.

EDIT:
30-40% hit rate seems to be supported. Not sure of the quality of this link though. They seem to use real numbers but I didn't dig into their source data.
www.politifact.com

PolitiFact - Do more than 7 in 10 police bullets miss their mark, as this gun control advocate said?

Calls to arm school teachers grew louder after a gunman at a Santa Fe, Texas, high school on May 18 killed eight student
www.politifact.com www.politifact.com
 
GreyGhost said:
The shocking part was one of the early police reports said they weren't sure how many times he was shot but there were at least 60 wounds. Holy frack. Even a firing squad uses an order of magnitude less bullets than that (and those are the ones that hit, given most cops appalling hit ratio, how many times did they reload).

EDIT:
Apparently 8 police officers fired 90+ shots. I find it hard to believe that on average they were at ~60% hit rate after a foot chase with adrenaline. I suspect the 90+ will actually be a far higher number. It appears the police were issued Glocks but I can't find which one. Probably 17 rounds a gun? ~136 rounds fired without a reload required? Hit with less than half? That seems more likely.
Click to expand...

The hit rate probably goes way up when the target is motionless on the ground, as is the case here. He dropped after the first shot or two. The firing continued for another 6 seconds or so after that, long enough to hear multiple officers calling for cease-fire. No pauses for reloads, they all just emptied their guns.

And given the circumstances, the 60 wounds could also indicate 30 or fewer hits if they're just counting entry and exit wounds, rather than individual bullet strikes.
 
GreyGhost said:
The shocking part was one of the early police reports said they weren't sure how many times he was shot but there were at least 60 wounds. Holy frack. Even a firing squad uses an order of magnitude less bullets than that (and those are the ones that hit, given most cops appalling hit ratio, how many times did they reload).

EDIT:
Apparently 8 police officers fired 90+ shots. I find it hard to believe that on average they were at ~60% hit rate after a foot chase with adrenaline. I suspect the 90+ will actually be a far higher number. It appears the police were issued Glocks but I can't find which one. Probably 17 rounds a gun? ~136 rounds fired without a reload required? Hit with less than half? That seems more likely.
Click to expand...
I pulled their list of standard equipment. Service weapons are:

Glock
a. Model Number G-17 (17 rounds)
b. Model Number G-19 (15 rounds)
c. Model Number G-26 (10 rounds)
 
Ash said:
The hit rate probably goes way up when the target is motionless on the ground, as is the case here. He dropped after the first shot or two. The firing continued for another 6 seconds or so after that, long enough to hear multiple officers calling for cease-fire. No pauses for reloads, they all just emptied their guns.

And given the circumstances, the 60 wounds could also indicate 30 or fewer hits if they're just counting entry and exit wounds, rather than individual bullet strikes.
Click to expand...
If there is an exit wound for every entry wound, police have an equipment problem. Most should not be coming out.


I agree, shooting the motionless lump laying on the ground a few dozen times would drive up the hit rate.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
This guy: Kills three cops and a dog. Got messed up somewhat, but is alive to face trial.

Jayland Walker: Runs from police, with no visible weapon, and is shot many, many times in the back.

More of this happening every day and it's not tough to do the math.
Click to expand...
The Kentucky idiot was a negotiated surrender so not as close a match.

The more direct situational comparison IMO is the Highland Park a-hole vs Javland Walker. Both in a vehicle, chase,, both assumed to be armed.... except one actually killed many people the other none!
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Jayland Walker: Runs from police, with no visible weapon, and is shot many, many times in the back.
Click to expand...
They're reporting today that Mr. Walker HAD a pistol, shot at police from the car, stopped the car and ran... leaving the pistol in the car TO BE FOUND LATER. The cops didn't know he left the gun in the car
 
bitzz said:
They're reporting today that Mr. Walker HAD a pistol, shot at police from the car, stopped the car and ran... leaving the pistol in the car TO BE FOUND LATER. The cops didn't know he left the gun in the car
Click to expand...
Shot at police may be an optimistic interpretation as well. Police reported what appeared to be a muzzle flash inside the car. That doesn't necessarily mean he shot at police, maybe he was just trying to stuff the gun between the seats. In the absence of further information, the unbiased presentation of that point would be they saw what appeared to be a muzzle flash not "he shot at police". Like with most motorcycle crashes where the bike crashed into the car, most reporting is very biased (they should say that the bike and car were in a crash, saying the bike crashed into the car sounds like the bike is at fault).
 
bitzz said:
They're reporting today that Mr. Walker HAD a pistol, shot at police from the car, stopped the car and ran... leaving the pistol in the car TO BE FOUND LATER. The cops didn't know he left the gun in the car
Click to expand...

They've been saying that from near the beginning... They first said he was armed at the time they shot him....
I'm not saying they're lying.. but police have put enough doubt in my mind that that I won't believe it until I see evidence.
 
bitzz said:
They're reporting today that Mr. Walker HAD a pistol, shot at police from the car, stopped the car and ran... leaving the pistol in the car TO BE FOUND LATER. The cops didn't know he left the gun in the car
Click to expand...
That is why the comparison is more accurate with the Highland Park shooter.

Both were fleeing in a vehicle and both were considered armed and dangerous. Maybe both discharged a firearm very recently... One was white and just killed people the other was black and did not just kill anyone. It will never be 100% apples to apples but...
 
backmarkerducati said:
The Kentucky idiot was a negotiated surrender so not as close a match.

The more direct situational comparison IMO is the Highland Park a-hole vs Javland Walker. Both in a vehicle, chase,, both assumed to be armed.... except one actually killed many people the other none!
Click to expand...
That's a very good point. My reason for making the comparison that I did was the proximity of the stories in this thread.
 
raginduck said:
turning around... trying to put your hands up... trying to surrender... will probably get them shot.
Click to expand...
Black suspects run because of the history of police shooting Black suspects. Police shoot Black suspects because they run. I'm seeing a feedback loop here. I would post the meme that shows 6 heavily armed White suspects that were arrested unharmed and 6 unarmed Black suspects that were killed by police, but it seems somewhat superfluous.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Black suspects run because of the history of police shooting Black suspects
Click to expand...

That's complete nonsense. People run for all sorts of reasons, existing warrants, 3rd strike, illegal contraband, high on drugs, guilty of a crime etc etc etc. More white people are shot in the US then all the other races combined.

Again it all comes down to compliance. You make any move at all that scares a cop while he's pointing a gun at you and your going to get shot. He values his life more then yours. Some cops are more frightened then others so are more likely to let off a shot if you try to scratch your ass.
 
DownUnder said:
That's complete nonsense. People run for all sorts of reasons, existing warrants, 3rd strike, illegal contraband, high on drugs, guilty of a crime etc etc etc. More white people are shot in the US then all the other races combined.

Again it all comes down to compliance. You make any move at all that scares a cop while he's pointing a gun at you and your going to get shot. He values his life more then yours. Some cops are more frightened then others so are more likely to let off a shot if you try to scratch your ass.
Click to expand...
Looking at absolute numbers is disingenuous. Look at probabilities and it is quite clear that poc are grossly overrepresented in police shootings.
 
justride said:
When your involved in this level of crime, it's organized crime. Arson, extortion, murder

GTA tow truck guard, 19, was handed illegal gun before his shooting death, family says in $2.45-million lawsuit​

www.toronto.com

GTA tow truck guard, 19, was handed illegal gun before his shooting death, family says in $2.45-million lawsuit

A GTA tow truck operator has been hit with a $2.45 million negligence lawsuit after a student working as a security guard was fatally shot in the head with an
www.toronto.com www.toronto.com
Click to expand...
This is the outfit that the 407 OPP motorcycle cops use for HTA impound.
 
GreyGhost said:
Shot at police may be an optimistic interpretation as well. Police reported what appeared to be a muzzle flash inside the car. That doesn't necessarily mean he shot at police, maybe he was just trying to stuff the gun between the seats. In the absence of further information, the unbiased presentation of that point would be they saw what appeared to be a muzzle flash not "he shot at police". Like with most motorcycle crashes where the bike crashed into the car, most reporting is very biased (they should say that the bike and car were in a crash, saying the bike crashed into the car sounds like the bike is at fault).
Click to expand...
How about stopping then hands up?

Seems to me the outcome eould always be better than starting a police chase amped up by squeezing out a round during the pursuit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom