Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%
  • Total voters
    111
murf said:
I beleive an employer can get rid off an employee for any reason as long as tgey pay severance and pay in leui of notice.
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Yea not really. Most of the time sure but there are plenty of companies that have been slapped with suits even after paying severance.
 
same topic, my wife just sent me this http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-26/10-facts-about-swatification-america-everyone-should-know

I always wonder if cops ever feel stupid for crushing the lives of the people they swore to protect or if they are just too stupid to know? I mean, they live among us. How are they and their families even allowed to interact with society?

Shaman said:
Yeah, this is how to help the people trust their law enforcement groups... not. Not that many people do anymore, unless they're highly myopic.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ons-immune-from-open-records-laws/?tid=pm_pop
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eljay said:
I always wonder if cops ever feel stupid for crushing the lives of the people they swore to protect or if they are just too stupid to know? I mean, they live among us. How are they and their families even allowed to interact with society?
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Good question. However, they've deliberately made it an us-or-them situation, between the ridiculous "tough on crime" laws and the way that they've militarized themselves against the public, both in attitude and in gear. More, in their personal lives they have taken great liberties in comporting themselves as above the law, and their violent outbursts in both private and public get swept under the carpet... quite often, a member of the public is threatened to keep their mouth shut about various things.

This is reality. For some reason there is a large (though getting smaller) population of people in Canada that have bought into the "all cops are heroes" meme and they really think that there's only a few bad cops. The truth is, there are only a few good cops... and if they were really good cops, there'd be a lot less bad cops. I keep saying this like a broken record, but this is the opinion not just of me but of a friend who did human resources work for a local force for nearly 10 years and could not stand the position any longer. Being told that her job was to keep the cops employed no matter what they did or what the consequences might be, and sweep the dirt under the furniture, so to speak, just isn't something she could do anymore.

Nobody wants a police force that they can't trust. Nobody wants a higher, unaccountable tier of citizen. Our government appears not to care or notice. What to do?
 
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The funny thing is that consistently, repeatedly, the general public votes for politicians who push these "tough on crime" laws. That's not the police. That's us.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
The funny thing is that consistently, repeatedly, the general public votes for politicians who push these "tough on crime" laws. That's not the police. That's us.
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Yeah.................... not really. Once they're elected, they all play the same fiddle and the police organisations soak it up... they do not raise objections if it gives them more power. MORE POWERS!! MORE MONEY!! MORE PRIVILEGES!! BIGGER GUNS!! LESS ACCOUNTABILITY!! #$%& YEAH IT'S GOOD TO BE THE COPS!! That's how it works.

I wish I was joking. Voting rarely changes anything, what we call "democracy" is a joke.
 
Shaman said:
Yeah.................... not really. Once they're elected, they all play the same fiddle and the police organisations soak it up... they do not raise objections if it gives them more power. MORE POWERS!! MORE MONEY!! MORE PRIVILEGES!! BIGGER GUNS!! LESS ACCOUNTABILITY!! #$%& YEAH IT'S GOOD TO BE THE COPS!! That's how it works.

I wish I was joking. Voting rarely changes anything, what we call "democracy" is a joke.
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Tell that to the Federal Conservative Party who ran on a 'tough on crime' agenda and got a majority, after having been found to not be following the law themselves. Tell that to the Provincial, "We will crush your cars!" Liberals, who have been in power for more than a decade. All it takes is for them to latch onto a hot button topic, promise legislation to stamp out the behaviour involved (usually something that is already covered by previous law), then push the pablum out to the public to be lapped up around election time. Extra points if the bill is named "[insert name of pretty blonde girl child here]'s Law."

Mandatory minimum sentences, because of a relatively small number of habituals. Racing and stunting laws, because "dangerous operation" under the Criminal Code already exists and isn't a sexy election issue. Governance by sound-bite.
 
I hear what you're saying, but I also heard what you didn't say: no matter whether they even follow their law themselves, they will get elected. IMHO they should have been barred from election based on Harper's attitude towards the law and the principles of the commons.

Anyway, it's pointless. I don't have any faith in the government anymore. Everyone's voting for the lesser of evils now. The only place they're making any strides from what I can tell is in workplace safety - but then if you're an employer, that's not all roses either... consider for a moment that if one of my guys decides to go against company policies, the law and common sense to cut a work project short... and WSIB does an audit that uncovers it... I get fined $500,000 for my employee's deliberate skirting of the rules. The only thing stopping that from happening is that the worker gets a $40,000 fine himself (speaking of one particular job) and that usually keeps them honest. What's the other option... I as the employer try to watch 50 employees at once? Off-topic, I know.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Tell that to the Federal Conservative Party who ran on a 'tough on crime' agenda and got a majority, after having been found to not be following the law themselves. Tell that to the Provincial, "We will crush your cars!" Liberals, who have been in power for more than a decade. All it takes is for them to latch onto a hot button topic, promise legislation to stamp out the behaviour involved (usually something that is already covered by previous law), then push the pablum out to the public to be lapped up around election time. Extra points if the bill is named "[insert name of pretty blonde girl child here]'s Law."

Mandatory minimum sentences, because of a relatively small number of habituals. Racing and stunting laws, because "dangerous operation" under the Criminal Code already exists and isn't a sexy election issue. Governance by sound-bite.
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+1.
 
Shaman said:
I hear what you're saying, but I also heard what you didn't say: no matter whether they even follow their law themselves, they will get elected. IMHO they should have been barred from election based on Harper's attitude towards the law and the principles of the commons.

Anyway, it's pointless. I don't have any faith in the government anymore. Everyone's voting for the lesser of evils now. The only place they're making any strides from what I can tell is in workplace safety - but then if you're an employer, that's not all roses either... consider for a moment that if one of my guys decides to go against company policies, the law and common sense to cut a work project short... and WSIB does an audit that uncovers it... I get fined $500,000 for my employee's deliberate skirting of the rules. The only thing stopping that from happening is that the worker gets a $40,000 fine himself (speaking of one particular job) and that usually keeps them honest. What's the other option... I as the employer try to watch 50 employees at once? Off-topic, I know.
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That's because we have allowed politicians to become a class unto themselves, rather than being involved in politics ourselves as civic responsibility would dictate. We're all so wrapped up in our tiny little lives as we strive to acquire that third car, and 6th TV, that we ignore the important things. It's us. We're responsible for calling them to task for their failures, malfeasance, and misfeasance.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
That's because we have allowed politicians to become a class unto themselves, rather than being involved in politics ourselves as civic responsibility would dictate. We're all so wrapped up in our tiny little lives as we strive to acquire that third car, and 6th TV, that we ignore the important things. It's us. We're responsible for calling them to task for their failures, malfeasance, and misfeasance.
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Sure, but have you tried to get anything done with a MP these days? You will be stonewalled. If you try and do a march on Parliament, the cops will go G20 on you. This is more than just a lack of civic duty, there is active and powerful pressure from the top to slow or stall any changes that the public might attempt to request. I've been personally told on two different occasions that my complaint is likely right (HTA 172 was one) but that the party would never get behind it and so the MP won't take any action. So what's the point of going to your MP, one might ask?
 
Shaman said:
Sure, but have you tried to get anything done with a MP these days? You will be stonewalled. If you try and do a march on Parliament, the cops will go G20 on you. This is more than just a lack of civic duty, there is active and powerful pressure from the top to slow or stall any changes that the public might attempt to request. I've been personally told on two different occasions that my complaint is likely right (HTA 172 was one) but that the party would never get behind it and so the MP won't take any action. So what's the point of going to your MP, one might ask?
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One person gets ignored. Twenty people might get ignored. Generally speaking one hundred people aren't ignored by local representatives. Not if they're looking to be re-elected, at least. Don't vote for people who refuse to listen to your needs and make sure that your friends know.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
One person gets ignored. Twenty people might get ignored. Generally speaking one hundred people aren't ignored by local representatives. Not if they're looking to be re-elected, at least. Don't vote for people who refuse to listen to your needs and make sure that your friends know.
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... so you're saying you haven't spent much time with your MP, then.
 
Shaman said:
... so you're saying you haven't spent much time with your MP, then.
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I'm saying that I give my MP the same amount of attention that he's given to me, when I've tried to contact him; none. I've said before that I'm considering running myself.
 
Shaman said:
Sure, but have you tried to get anything done with a MP these days? You will be stonewalled. If you try and do a march on Parliament, the cops will go G20 on you. This is more than just a lack of civic duty, there is active and powerful pressure from the top to slow or stall any changes that the public might attempt to request. I've been personally told on two different occasions that my complaint is likely right (HTA 172 was one) but that the party would never get behind it and so the MP won't take any action. So what's the point of going to your MP, one might ask?
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That makes me think of the fringe candidates in the mayoral election who haven't taken the effort to get involved in their communities or get elected to council first. Going straight to your MP is the same kind of shortcut for a matter that is of public interest.
Like Rob said, build support, get attention, get a mandate and THEN go to your MP. I guarantee (s)he will pay attention.
 
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