Lane Position Question

[ZX600]

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According to the standard interpretation under the DCP (Driver Certification Program) that is not meant to be interpreted in such a black or white manner. A smooth shift with an imperceptible gap in power delivery, especially on a smaller displacement bike, should be ignored. If there's a big gap, (think straight pipes on a cruiser: brrraaap. pause. longer pause. BRAAP!) that's an error. If it's not smooth or the bike lugs, that's an error.
I agree - if you can't shift smoothly, you aren't ready. One of the things that training for this does though, is makes riders more aware of when they're shifting, so that it's only done when it really is necessary, not just because it's habit.

Sorry my friend but it is very clear, take a look at the M2 Exit exam, there are fields for the inspector to take marks away if you shift while turning

Left side of the test under the "turning" heading


http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/xtwinturbo//M_exam/m-exam.gif

 

[Emefef]

Sorry my friend but it is very clear, take a look at the M2 Exit exam, there are fields for the inspector to take marks away if you shift while turning

Left side of the test under the "turning" heading


http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/xtwinturbo//M_exam/m-exam.gif

I know the sheet - but more importantly, you have to know the marking guide, and the application of it. For example, you can't look at a box, like "foot moved" and understand the scoring criteria. There is a published M2 Driver Examiner Marking Guide to explain what to watch for, and the specific error criteria. Ironically, shifting gears is an error in the Marking Guide, but the practical application is such that during examiner training and recertification, they are taught that if the shift is smooth, they can ignore it. If I thought the rider could have easily and smoothly made it without shifting, I would give them the demerit as a reminder. WIth a small displacement bike and big intersection - not if it was smooth.

 

[ZX600]

I know the sheet - but more importantly, you have to know the marking guide, and the application of it. For example, you can't look at a box, like "foot moved" and understand the scoring criteria. There is a published M2 Driver Examiner Marking Guide to explain what to watch for, and the specific error criteria. Ironically, shifting gears is an error in the Marking Guide, but the practical application is such that during examiner training and recertification, they are taught that if the shift is smooth, they can ignore it. If I thought the rider could have easily and smoothly made it without shifting, I would give them the demerit as a reminder. WIth a small displacement bike and big intersection - not if it was smooth.

Exactly, it is left to the inspector to make a judgement call but the base line is that it is wrong or deemed wrong to do. Anyone preparing to take the test, will most likely get a hold of a copy of the exam and since they don't know the criteria they will from that point on believe that it is the wrong thing to do.

Anyways, not sure what the point of this conversation was anymore

 

[PLau]

Here you go.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/handbook/motorcycles/section9-2-0.shtml

I ride a 250 on the street, has a very short first gear.

It's quote's like this from the handbook that you have to realise it's a beginner's guide to riding.

If you are a seasoned rider and need to consult a book as reference to what is right and wrong then there are bigger problems in your roadcraft.

Yuup, riding a CBR125, you'd realize that the 1st gear is even shorter than the 250 and barely hit 30km/h at 12k rpm.

I asked the M2Exit examiner if I could shift in the middle of the intersection cause my 1st gear is really short and he said "Shift if you have to, don't believe everything you read on the internet". Well, that answered my question, many many of the questions on this thread. Just because there is a box to dock marks off, doesn't mean you have to comply with them 100% especially if you create a more dangerous situation than if you would.

End result - Shifted in the middle of almost every intersection and had 0 marks docked for "shifting in intersection".

I've hit the rev limiter going straight before and I can imagine what the outcome would be if I were to hit it in the middle of a turn. It probably would throw me even more off balance than if I were to just shift.

 

[Emefef]

Exactly, it is left to the inspector to make a judgement call but the base line is that it is wrong or deemed wrong to do. Anyone preparing to take the test, will most likely get a hold of a copy of the exam and since they don't know the criteria they will from that point on believe that it is the wrong thing to do.

Anyways, not sure what the point of this conversation was anymore

The point was that we disagreed on whether it was an automatic error if you shift in an intersection.
The fact is that there are specific allowances in the marking criteria to allow for shifting.

A new point based on your last comment would be that anyone that prepares for an M2 Exit test by reviewing the score sheet without the context of the actual scoring criteria or some instruction about the scoring criteria is not doing themselves any favours.

Look at Stop Intersections on your sample score sheet. Under the stopping section, it says "Foot Moves". So what does that mean? It doesn't mean you play freeze tag at the stop. Then look at the Starting section, under "Speed: wait/fast/slow/lug/rev/rough gears" - it looks like it's a Goldilocks thing - waited too long, went too fast, went too slow, etc.. How do I know what's right?

Back to the section on the left that you pointed out, the turning section. Under approach, right at the top, the first two items are traffic checks - mirrors and blind spot. Then there's another blind spot on turning! WTF? I have to do two blind spot checks to make a turn?

When people try to learn from the score sheet, they come to incorrect conclusions, and then believe that the test is overkill because the stuff isn't realistic or worse yet a pointless exercise that must be endured to get a licence.

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