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Lane Position Question

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Read post # 10.

The original question posed was about left turn lane positioning. That's what I answered for. That's what are my comments are about.

I misread post #3, only saw his first sent acne.
 
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Jayv said:
Read post # 10.

The original question posed was about left turn lane positioning. That's what I answered for. That's what are my comments are about.

I misread post #3, only saw his first sent acne.
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I read post 10 - that's the one I first responded to because of the "you guys and your lane blocking - jeez!" comment. That's why I'm curious. If it's only situations like that where you disagree, then it's just a difference in the interpretation of priorities at that specific situation. It's just odd to me that you're so dismissive of the idea if you're doing the same thing most of the time.
 
As mentioned I didn't clearly read his post the first time around, for that I apologize. Maybe that's why I've clearly messed up this thread.

In a nutshell, yes there are times when riding blocking position is beneficial and correct. Other times such as left turns,not beneficial.

Hope this clears this up.
 
Jayv said:
As mentioned I didn't clearly read his post the first time around, for that I apologize. Maybe that's why I've clearly messed up this thread.

In a nutshell, yes there are times when riding blocking position is beneficial and correct. Other times such as left turns,not beneficial.

Hope this clears this up.
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Well, thanks it does - but it also just occurred to me while I was off doing something else that the other post (#3) that said "You always block" is exactly the type of thing that could rightfully trigger a response like "you guys and your blocking position....." I think the only absolute when it comes to lane positiong is that there are no absolutes, there is no always do this, there is no never do that. There are things that will generally be right if you have no clue what else to do - but you have to understand what you're trying to accomplish, and figure out the best way.

I think we agree. Cheers.
 
Gsus said:
Dedicated left turn lane: left or right tire track? Question really is, does a dedicated left turn lane function as it's own single lane (left tire track)? or is it an additional lane in traffic, so blocking position is necessary (right track)?
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There are a number of excellent reasons why you'd want to be in the right tire track if possible.
Mainly you want to keep your distance from oncoming traffic, and you want those impatient ones behind to not see an opening to squeeze by you on the outside forcing you into the median. If there's a big diesel spill in the right track or a number of other valid reasons, you could take the left track, keeping in mind that your turn becomes a bit more squared off.
It's an additional lane set up for turning.

Don't forget that technically you're not supposed to enter the intersection until the way is clear for you to proceed.
 
I prefer left tire track, easier to see the oncoming traffic before the turn and makes you more visible to the on coming traffic, I doubt a blocking position is needed since no one will try and pass you on a left turn onto on coming traffic if that makes sense.

But...im just a beginner rider, so I suggest you do research or find a serious rider on this forum since its filled with keyboard licensed riding professionals.

Good luck not getting any answers telling you to "go out and try it instead of asking a question on a motorcycle forum" haha
 
Jayv said:
Yup keeping blocking, and while you're at it make sure your bike has loud pipes and hi beams on.

Seriously ,new riders take this blocking crap to heart just because it's in the bible....

You guys are more worried about a car rear ending you than proper visibility from the on coming traffic.

Here's a news flash, the un attentive cager that's going to rear end you won't see you regardless which tire track you are in, far too busy texting to take notice.
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Your logic is spurious, your terminology misleading, and your priorities backwards. You should stop giving advice and leave it to those of us who do this for a living.
 
Jayv said:
He wasn't asking specifically for M test positioning.

You guys and your lane blocking....jeez.

Dedicated left turn lane, more than likely the oncoming traffic also has a dedicated left turning lane. If a car in the opposite lane is also making a left turn You are now blind to see any traffic that might be running a red light.

Doesn't matter what a book says.

The #1 rule for street riding is visibility.

You don't lane block when going over a blind hill, you position yourself into the safest position. Same goes for left turns at a traffic light.

The book is just a guide...
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I agree with this point of view completely. Blocking is great unless it gets you smoked by oncoming traffic that can't see you. :rolleyes:
 
Acadian1974 said:
Your logic is spurious, your terminology misleading, and your priorities backwards. You should stop giving advice and leave it to those of us who do this for a living.
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Just cause you do something for a living doesn't mean you're good at it. For example look at cab drivers :lmao:

And i agree with Jayv on this :)
 
I use a Hybrid blocking position style modified from the M2 exit strategy, simply adjust to the position according to the surroundings and driving conditions and if hot chicks are at the corner.

Shake and Bake!
 
Acadian1974 said:
Your logic is spurious, your terminology misleading, and your priorities backwards. You should stop giving advice and leave it to those of us who do this for a living.
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You do know that Jay is a Certified Motorcycle Instructor right?

His logic is: Ride and position yourself on any way that makes you the most visible, even if it goes against the MTO book.
To me this logic is solid.

His terminology is also fine since many in here got his point and have agreed (as the two riders above)

His priorities are chips and beer so to me those are pretty solid as well.

You should take your own advice!
 
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ZX600 said:
His logic is: Ride and position yourself on any way that makes you the most visible, even if it goes against the MTO book.
To me this logic is solid.

!
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The only problem I see with this, is if your have a car in front of you, do you really need to be visible to oncoming traffic since you cant really go anywhere? (I completely agree that when you are the first vehicle and in the intersection the best place to be is the left tire track.)
Thats why i would rather be visible to the cars in my lane either the car behind me not paying attention or the Cabbies that think they can squeeze into the open spot in the turning lane when they assume the car behind you just isn't paying attention and left a gap. (Has happened to me).

But everyone has their own riding styles and ways they feel sefest and works for them,
 
Roomie said:
Blocking is great unless it gets you smoked by oncoming traffic that can't see you. :rolleyes:
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The example was a dedicated left turn lane. Most dedicated left turn lanes are opposite a lane for the same purpose in the opposite direction.
While you're sitting behind the line at the intersection, your visibility to oncoming traffic is not the priority. If oncoming traffic is coming into your dedicated left turn lane, they aren't doing it simply because they don't see you.
a) if everyone is stopped and you're first in line, the opposing traffic can see you no matter what your lane position;
b) if you're stopped waiting for traffic ahead, you're still protected because you aren't in the intersection;
c) if you're stopped and not first in line, it doesn't matter.
If there's a median, it matters even less.

Once you move into the intersection, your absolute priority is to be as conspicuous as possible until you can get out of the intersection. It therefore makes sense as you move into the intersection, to move to the left where you can see and be seen. You're also out of the way of the driver directly opposite you, allowing the driver a clear line of sight, and more room so they can make the turn safely.
 
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The amount of misleading **** in this thread is going to either get someone killed or fail their exam.
 
The circumstances in which the lane position is being discussed here, is one of the least important situations that I can think of.

Worry about lane position when you are moving, approaching an intersection, with traffic from other directions and behind you.

Worry about lane position when you are approaching a blind crest on a two-lane road. Pedestrians, in your lane or in the opposite lane, opposing traffic possibly over the center line, you can't see any of it.

Worry about lane position when you have to slow down for whatever reason and there is someone behind. But I would rather just get the maneuver over with quickly and get the heck out of the way, as opposed to making myself visible to whoever is behind. If I'm not there any more because I've already completed the turn or pulled off onto the breakdown lane or whatever, then it doesn't matter if the driver behind is yapping on the phone. I'm not there to hit any more.

Worry about lane position when you spot slipperiness in any of its many forms.

Sitting at a stop? Getting smoked from behind is likely the greatest risk. For that ... for visibility you want to be directly in front of that following driver's line of sight (i.e. LEFT side of lane) and for giving yourself an escape route (into cross traffic against a red light??) ... good luck with that. If there is a only a center line between the two directions on the road that you are on, then there is no barrier stopping a vehicle turning left from the cross street into the direction facing you, from cutting the corner and hitting you ... so don't move too far ahead, too close to the stop line. If there is a central reservation of some sort (and often, a pole with the traffic light on it) then this is not as much of a problem.

But compared to the million or so other things that can happen, first - this is a comparatively low risk because you are not moving, and second - if you are going to get smoked from behind, and you can't accelerate into cross traffic or between cars in front of you because you are at the front of the line - there is pretty much bugger all that you can do about it anyway.
 
I think the issue of lane position is irrelevant, the point of the conversation and the main point some of us are arguing is "don't follow the MTO book blindly" - Do whatever your judgement tells you at the moment to make you the safest.
 
38 posts later and no one has bothered to look it up in the book.

It's not theoretical physics, or even rocket science.

Sure, you can go against the book with experience, but the book is a base to work from, and the directions are based on sound principles, that work in the majority of cases.

Anybody, got a book? I loaned mine to my neighbour a few years back, and I think he sold it.
 
Baggsy said:
38 posts later and no one has bothered to look it up in the book.
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The debate wasn't about the "book", it was largely about blindly following the book without exercising judgement. I think that's one of the issues. It's easy to give advice like "do what makes sense" or "use your own judgement", but how does one learn what makes sense or how to exercise judgement if they haven't had the experience to recognize all the factors?
In this debate, between experienced riders, some of whom are trainers, there was still debate about the priorities and where the greatest risks are. I said it earlier, Brian P just said it again - when you're approaching an intersection (coming to a stop), or sitting still in a dedicated left turn lane behind the line at an intersection, oncoming traffic is the least of your worries. It's the least likely to hit you, and almost impossible to avoid anyway. So stay in what would be the normal blocking position for a rider with traffic behind them and to the right of them - the right side of the lane. That's also the marking standard on the M2 Exit examination.
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