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Lane Position Question

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Maybe my view's stated in this thread come off being a little harsh on lane blocking.

Bottom line, in theory when teaching in a controlled enviroment, or looking at a motorcycle book that has little to no traffic in it's illustration's the blocking makes sense. Trouble is, it's not the real world.

You can take my advice as foolish and unfounded as Mr High Horse Acardian believes, bottom line the #1 rule in my riding has always been about visibility and putting myself in the least*risk* position possible.
 
Jayv said:
Doesn't matter what a book says.

The #1 rule for street riding is visibility.

You don't lane block when going over a blind hill, you position yourself into the safest position. Same goes for left turns at a traffic light.

The book is just a guide...
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Listen to this guy. The book is really just a guide. A smart rider will always apply the learnings in a flexible way based on the situation presented. Street riding is all about survival. Make yourself visible as much as you can, and also put yourself in positions where you will maintain the best line of sight yourself. Blocking position is really to "discourage" cars in the next lane from cutting into you, but as we've all experienced, sometimes that doesn't mean sh*t to cagers. If I'm at an intersection making a left turn myself, I worry a hell of a lot more about being hit by traffic on the other side (car skipping out from behind the opposite left turning car) than someone cutting into lane or rear-ending me. And damn those full tinted windowed SUVs. If I can't see through, I usually wait till it's safe to turn. The cagers behind me can honk all they want.

Almost forgot to mention, riding schools teach students to angle their bikes at stops when approaching turns to 1) be prepared for the turn, 2) increase visibility to the cars
 
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As far left as possible without being in oncoming traffic lane. Gives traffic behind you most room to pass. Right track will confuse driver behind you regarding your intent. Non-motorcyclists do not know what blocking position is.
 
Here's a vid that shows why you usually don't want to be as far left as possible in a dedicated left turn lane: [video=youtube;AbdwLlfgDxA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbdwLlfgDxA[/video]
 
Okay I may have misunderstood the original question. It's about turning on a dedicated left turn lane at an intersection. Yeah, I'd move a bit to the center or behind the stop line but not to the right. For a non-dedicated left turn on a straight road, I'd be on the left track.
 
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EC2010 said:
Almost forgot to mention, riding schools teach students to angle their bikes at stops when approaching turns to 1) be prepared for the turn, 2) increase visibility to the cars
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This is the stopped position, on right turns only (or left turns from one way to one way streets).
There's not much point to it on a left turn, when you would have to immediately straighten the bike back out to cross half the intersection. It also leaves you pointed at oncoming traffic. Not recommended.
 
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Baggsy said:
Here's a vid that shows why you usually don't want to be as far left as possible in a dedicated left turn lane: [video=youtube;AbdwLlfgDxA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbdwLlfgDxA[/video]
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Thanks Baggsy, that's a good demo. There are far more dangerous things happening than the oncoming traffic there. Once you move into the intersection, you can adjust position for a better view.
 
Baggsy said:
38 posts later and no one has bothered to look it up in the book.

It's not theoretical physics, or even rocket science.

Sure, you can go against the book with experience, but the book is a base to work from, and the directions are based on sound principles, that work in the majority of cases.

Anybody, got a book? I loaned mine to my neighbour a few years back, and I think he sold it.
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Here you go.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/handbook/motorcycles/section9-2-0.shtml

I ride a 250 on the street, has a very short first gear.
Gears (if applicable)
Do not shift gears during the turn. An incorrect gear change during a turn can cause the rear wheel to skid. Generally, not changing gears gives you more control and balance over your vehicle when it is turning.
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It's quote's like this from the handbook that you have to realise it's a beginner's guide to riding.

If you are a seasoned rider and need to consult a book as reference to what is right and wrong then there are bigger problems in your roadcraft.
 
Jayv said:
Here you go.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/handbook/motorcycles/section9-2-0.shtml

I ride a 250 on the street, has a very short first gear.

It's quote's like this from the handbook that you have to realise it's a beginner's guide to riding.

If you are a seasoned rider and need to consult a book as reference to what is right and wrong then there are bigger problems in your roadcraft.
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the worse part is that you will get ding by the inspector during your M2 exit if you do this. I was swearing and cursing at the fact i couldn't shift during a turn while taking the test, thinking to myself, this is ridiculous, I am supposed to have been riding for at least 2 years, if I can't shift during a turn, I should not get my license.
 
Emefef said:
This is the stopped position, on right turns only (or left turns from one way to one way streets).
There's not much point to it on a left turn, when you would have to immediately straighten the bike back out to cross half the intersection. It also leaves you pointed at oncoming traffic. Not recommended.
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While I agree that it may not be recommended with a left turn at a 4 way intersection with traffic lights, it is not an uncommon practice with left turns (coming off of a 2 lane left turning into a driveway or side street). Pointing the motorcycle in the direction you would like to go is not right turn exclusive. The idea is similar to the basis of SMIDSY, make yourself as visible as possible. A bike in an angle has an increased profile to traffic both oncoming and the ones coming up behind you. Imagine wearing all black riding on a black bike.... point straight or angle a bit?

For the MTObook-followers: "When you stop, you may point your motorcycle or moped in the direction of the turn to let other drivers know you are turning and to keep them from pulling up beside you." Again, it's a recommendation, you have a choice to practice this in safe traffic conditioins.

I understand the whole pointing vehicle into oncoming traffic theory, with the biggest risk of someone smoking you from behind and knocking you into oncoming traffic. If that's the case, however you put it, you are toast.

To the OP, don't over-analyze. A turn is a turn, do whatever it's safe in the given situation, remain as visible as you can be, and trust your instincts.
 
Left turns are dangerous.
I use the crosswalks. I get off and walk my bike to the other side.
It works for me plus I burn a few calories.
Problem solved.
 
BuckWild said:
Left turns are dangerous.
I use the crosswalks. I get off and walk my bike to the other side.
It works for me plus I burn a few calories.
Problem solved.
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Is that to make up for all the arepas you used to eat?

yes, I know who you are :)
 
EC2010 said:
While I agree that it may not be recommended with a left turn at a 4 way intersection with traffic lights, it is not an uncommon practice with left turns (coming off of a 2 lane left turning into a driveway or side street). Pointing the motorcycle in the direction you would like to go is not right turn exclusive. The idea is similar to the basis of SMIDSY, make yourself as visible as possible. A bike in an angle has an increased profile to traffic both oncoming and the ones coming up behind you. Imagine wearing all black riding on a black bike.... point straight or angle a bit?

For the MTObook-followers: "When you stop, you may point your motorcycle or moped in the direction of the turn to let other drivers know you are turning and to keep them from pulling up beside you." Again, it's a recommendation, you have a choice to practice this in safe traffic conditioins.
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Your example isn't an intersection, so i don't disagree. Also, as your quote suggests, it's not mandatory - it just says you could do it to make things more clear. As I said, if you're in a dedicated left turn lane, you have to cross part of the intersection before you start your turn, and therefore you should still be pointing straight.
 
ZX600 said:
the worse part is that you will get ding by the inspector during your M2 exit if you do this. I was swearing and cursing at the fact i couldn't shift during a turn while taking the test, thinking to myself, this is ridiculous, I am supposed to have been riding for at least 2 years, if I can't shift during a turn, I should not get my license.
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According to the standard interpretation under the DCP (Driver Certification Program) that is not meant to be interpreted in such a black or white manner. A smooth shift with an imperceptible gap in power delivery, especially on a smaller displacement bike, should be ignored. If there's a big gap, (think straight pipes on a cruiser: brrraaap. pause. longer pause. BRAAP!) that's an error. If it's not smooth or the bike lugs, that's an error.
I agree - if you can't shift smoothly, you aren't ready. One of the things that training for this does though, is makes riders more aware of when they're shifting, so that it's only done when it really is necessary, not just because it's habit.
 
Type17 said:
No, it isn't. It may not be how you ride, but it's what the book recommends.
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I wonder if there's a diagram for this - perhaps the confusion is just which is lane one and which is lane two. If there are two lanes turning and you're in the left one, generally the blocking position would be to the right side of the lane. If you are in the right-most lane, you would most likely be to the right so that you're keeping people from moving into the lane late. You may want to block the traffic on your left (the other lane) but that could be suicidal during the turn!
 
Emefef said:
I wonder if there's a diagram for this - perhaps the confusion is just which is lane one and which is lane two. If there are two lanes turning and you're in the left one, generally the blocking position would be to the right side of the lane. If you are in the right-most lane, you would most likely be to the right so that you're keeping people from moving into the lane late. You may want to block the traffic on your left (the other lane) but that could be suicidal during the turn!
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Ohhh... well, the example i gave I was talking about 4 lanes going in the same direction. The leftmost 2 lanes turn left.

I'll number the lanes to make it clearer.

|4|3|2|1|

Lane 4 & 3 turn left, lanes 1 & 2 go forward. Now, I was saying that the book says that if you're in lane 4 you should be in the right tire track and if you're in lane 3 you should be in the left track.

I'm not saying that this is the safest way to ride since that changes from situation to situation, all I'm saying is that if you followed the book to the letter, this is how you'd ride. I think this is what the OP was asking and that's what I told him.
 
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Gsus said:
Dedicated left turn lane: left or right tire track? Question really is, does a dedicated left turn lane function as it's own single lane (left tire track)? or is it an additional lane in traffic, so blocking position is necessary (right track)?
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Right tire track, to block, until you're actually approaching the intersection. At that point you decide if there's little or no oncoming traffic or if there's a lot of opposing traffic in their left turn lane. If there's not a lot of traffic you maintain the blocking position. If there's a lot of oncoming traffic then you switch to the left tire track, so that you can see further past the traffic in the opposing left turn lane and, consequently, be seen by oncoming through traffic.
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