Dedicated left turn lane: left or right tire track? Question really is, does a dedicated left turn lane function as it's own single lane (left tire track)? or is it an additional lane in traffic, so blocking position is necessary (right track)?
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Lane Position Question
- Thread starter Gsus
- Start date
Forget blocking, what are you blocking anyway? You can't block a 4000lb car.
What lane makes you most visible is the correct answer.
Just because it's in the handbook, doesn't make it gospel. It's a guideline, not mandatory.
For M2 exit test, right track for blocking. Real world, decide based on conditions, sometimes left makes more sense.
Type17
Well-known member
The man asked about blocking so I told him about blocking. I wasn't telling him how to ride. And it will be gospel when he goes for M2 exit.
That's what I want to know. Thanks.
In all honesty the right tire track makes you most visible for oncoming traffic as well as the correct blocking position.
If your the first vehicle at the lights then you are the most visible wherever you are (Except if not in the blocking position someone could think there is room to squeeze in in front of the car behind you ie Toronto cabby)
If your the second vehicle you are invisible until the car in front of you turns, In which case you will become visible faster and be able to judge if your going or not easier in the right tire track as the car in front will be out of your line of sight faster.
So for every reason you should be in the right tire track.
He wasn't asking specifically for M test positioning.
You guys and your lane blocking....jeez.
Dedicated left turn lane, more than likely the oncoming traffic also has a dedicated left turning lane. If a car in the opposite lane is also making a left turn You are now blind to see any traffic that might be running a red light.
Doesn't matter what a book says.
The #1 rule for street riding is visibility.
You don't lane block when going over a blind hill, you position yourself into the safest position. Same goes for left turns at a traffic light.
The book is just a guide...
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read it again... Sitting at the light you sit in the right tire track, as you pull into the intersection you move over to the left
Ah,, you certainly can... when you are sitting in the lane,, right tire track.. you can block any large vehicle from getting in your lane inappropriately
and the transition from right tire track to left produces a bit of wiggle that gets peoples attention... not that they will take the right action ..
Happy Trails!
PLau
Well-known member
Would agree with this.
If you sit in the right tire track in the middle of the intersection, you wouldn't be able to see oncoming traffic. Therefore if you were to go, you would be "hoping" that a car isn't coming (unless the opposite left turn lane is empty).
If you're in the left tire track, at least you can see whats coming at you.
rmemedic
Well-known member
Good news since I have to do my M2 exit this summer. I have been doing what makes sense, so I'm glad it is what the tester will want to see.
Right tire track. Allows you to see around the vehicle in front of you, as they turn and allows you to be visible earlier. I also make sure that I pull far enough right, and watch my mirrors so if I'm going to get rear ended, all I need to do is turn just a little bit to the right and go between the 2 vehicles in front of me. I'm positive that some day this is gonna save me. I don't "relax" until the car behind me is stopped. If there is another car behind them, I make sure THAT one has also stopped, to avoid the chance of them rolling forward if they get hit.
If I'm not stopping at the intersection (green light) I stay in the right track until just before the turn, this movement to the left gets attention and makes it obvious I'm turning left (even though the responsibility there is all on me).
Right tire track. Allows you to see around the vehicle in front of you, as they turn and allows you to be visible earlier. I also make sure that I pull far enough right, and watch my mirrors so if I'm going to get rear ended, all I need to do is turn just a little bit to the right and go between the 2 vehicles in front of me. I'm positive that some day this is gonna save me. I don't "relax" until the car behind me is stopped. If there is another car behind them, I make sure THAT one has also stopped, to avoid the chance of them rolling forward if they get hit.
If I'm not stopping at the intersection (green light) I stay in the right track until just before the turn, this movement to the left gets attention and makes it obvious I'm turning left (even though the responsibility there is all on me).
rmemedic
Well-known member
#2, but that isn't the same situation that was asked of.
However, if this was a road with 2 lanes, and the left isn't a dedicated turn lane, shift to the left track so you can be seen by oncoming left turners. Back to the right track after the intersection... And be ready to avoid.
However, if this was a road with 2 lanes, and the left isn't a dedicated turn lane, shift to the left track so you can be seen by oncoming left turners. Back to the right track after the intersection... And be ready to avoid.
There's a reason so many people believe in it, and so many schools teach it, and while the testing procedure isn't perfect, why it's tested. Where the debate so often comes up (a recent thread comes to mind), the problem with most of the debates is that as soon as someone quotes the general guideline, they seem to lose credibility with the "do what makes sense" position. Proper blocking position IS about visibility. And you're right, you can't stop a 4000lb car. That's not what it's about - it's about being visible so you can discourage another motorist from moving into your position. It's specifically about doing that for the motorists travelling in the same direction as you. So riding along in a long dedicated lane, or sitting still behind the line, before entering an intersection the general blocking position (right tire track in a dedicated left turn lane) is a good one. As you move into the intersection, blocking becomes irrelevant - you are looking to see and be seen by traffic from all directions and get out of the intersection as quickly and safely as possible.
When you're sitting behind the line at an intersection, you're not trying to be visible to oncoming traffic. They shouldn't be on your side of the road, and if they are coming, it's not because of your lack of visibility. When considering traffic in your direction though, if you're sitting in the left tire track, or even closer to the yellow line or median and someone approaching the intersection in the lane beside you decides at the last moment that they are also turning left, they are more likely to move in beside you, or at least encroach on your space, than they would if you were clearly in the blocking position. If a motorist approaching from behind you decides they aren't turning left after all, there's nothing to force them to actually change lanes completely back into a through lane - they may end up beside you as well. Like you said - it's about visibility - we just have to agree on who it is we need to see us!
Agreed - if this was two lanes and you were approaching in the left lane, right tire track, you could move over to be more visible. If you intended this to be one lane, I don't think the lane position of the bike is bad in the first one, because it is the left part of the lane. To actually be tracking the car in front in his left tire track is pretty close to center. BUT if you're following a bigger vehicle through an intersection where cars are turning across your path, it's paramount that they can see you. You may even have to slow down so they can see you...(or speed up so it doesn't matter, but that's a WHOLE bunch of other risk). Watch for them to see if they're timing their turn to be right behind the vehicle ahead of you - that's a good indication they don't see you.
Yup keeping blocking, and while you're at it make sure your bike has loud pipes and hi beams on.
Seriously ,new riders take this blocking crap to heart just because it's in the bible....
You guys are more worried about a car rear ending you than proper visibility from the on coming traffic.
Here's a news flash, the un attentive cager that's going to rear end you won't see you regardless which tire track you are in, far too busy texting to take notice.
Seriously ,new riders take this blocking crap to heart just because it's in the bible....
You guys are more worried about a car rear ending you than proper visibility from the on coming traffic.
Here's a news flash, the un attentive cager that's going to rear end you won't see you regardless which tire track you are in, far too busy texting to take notice.
True the drawing does not have a dedicated turning lane but it was an illustration regardless of the lane you are in, you are always more visible to the incoming traffic by being in the left tire trail and not in the right.
I got hit from behind by a minivan while in the right tire track, its pointless in "real life" riding unless you are in a highway. If I rode everyday the same way i rode to pass my m2 exit i would have been killed by now.
Not arguing, just giving you guys my point of view from experience
I can't speak on behalf of all "you guys", but if you were including me in that group, you're wrong. I'm worried about both. And as an advocate of proper blocking, I've already agreed it's about visibility, and that it changes based on priority at any given time. Stubbornly sticking to a lane position through all circumstances is not correct. I've never taught or implied to a novice or experienced rider that proper blocking position will eliminate risk and help you get chicks and live forever. It's one way of helping to manage the risk. When it makes sense to block, you block. When it makes sense to stay the hell out of the way, you stay the hell out of the way.
I don't need the news flash. I know about the inattentive cager behind me. Stupid never sleeps, and if you're going support your argument by talking about drivers that aren't paying attention at all, then you're talking about a whole different set of risks - from following traffic, adjacent traffic, cross traffic and oncoming traffic. There is no lane position that can save you from absolute stupidity. The point is to manage the risks where you can to try and at least be visible for the ones that are looking.
I am curious though, because I can't believe that at least some of the time you wouldn't be riding in what is generally considered the blocking position. Like on a single lane in each direction, or the right lane of a multilane road, do you disagree with the common practice of riding in the left side of the lane? Or are there just specific examples, like this dedicated left turn lane one that you disagree with? I certainly get the point that you disagree with considering the blocking position as "Gospel", and I agree with you on that - I just don't think it should be dismissed outright. Riders that are learning about it need to learn that "blocking" is about the concept of visibility. It's a goal. "Blocking position" is a generality, a set guidelines that help you achieve that goal in specific situations. Those guidelines still just a way to achieve the goal of visibility, and they will not apply in every situation.
Don't think that everyone that refers to blocking position doesn't understand the importance of interpreting and reacting to specific situations.
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