You know that the reason they used the NWC is that the legislation was illegal right? Trampled on charter rights and freedoms? Please tell me you know that. Please tell me you only care about rights when it is you that is affected. Let me guess. Trudeau taking away rights bad. Ford taking away rights "but won't someone think of the children missing school".
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JT's not the only one handing out free money...
- Thread starter mimico_polak
- Start date
NWC was part of the charter of rights and freedoms. You can't pick and choose which parts you are allowed to use. It's in the charter so it is legal to use. I am not talking about ethics or morals.
That's...why they used the NWC. Ay caramba.
The entire point of its existence is to circumvent court challenges to parliamentary legislation.
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wonderings
Well-known member
and on the opposite side there is no point going to the table if the people you are supposed to be negotiating with say they will not accept anything but a crazy high percentage increase in pay. Both sides of the table have issues here, I think first and foremost it was CUPE coming out saying they would not accept anything but what they demanded. I know I would certainly rather just not talk if that is what an opponent of mine was doing. Why bother? Ultimately I think both sides should be sitting together 12 hours a day, let them fling mud at each other, do whatever, but they should not be leaving the bargaining room till a deal is settled. It has to happen, there is no way around it so lets make this as pain free as possible for the kids so they can have a normal public school education.
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Mad Mike
Well-known member
Do you understand the NWC? Under Canadian law, appointed Judges and courts generally have the final word on matters of the constitution and laws, which is contrary to the democratic principles of the people and their elected officials having control. The NWC protects democratic principles by providing provincial legislatures and their elected officials with the authority to take back portions of the constitution when they feel it's in the best interests of their constituents..
The right to strike was never enshrined into Canada's constitution, it was deemed by a recent (liberal heavy) Supreme Court interpretation of rights to gather. The change was not decided by the people through their elected officials, and was specifically not granted as a right in Canada's constitution when it was framed.
In retrospect, if I were king, I'd have classified all school staff as essential workers.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
10 month CUPE workers can draw UI for the summer break, $4500 to $6800. This is not included in the $39,000 average.
Under strike or lockout pay rules, workers are paid $15hr for each hour they man a picket line. Max is 20 hours a week -- $300.
lol again, lockout/strike pay rules apply to people who were working and not laid off/on EI at the time of the strike or lockout. People who are at the time laid off, are laid off. No different than a laid off GM worker collecting EI, as long as they are laid off before the strike, they get EI, working at the beginning of the strike, strike pay.
So if it ends after the school year the government once again has no leverage trying to lock out already laid off workers, except in maybe fantasy land. If we have it end at the beginning of June or late May so they can be locked out before they are laid off, you just handed MORE power to the union as they now have the power to cancel the end of the school year, exams etc. If we try to make it just at the end (say a week before when things are winding down and class time does not count for much) there is no time to actually negotiate before they are laid off, easy for them to sit at the table and kick the can down the road.
Again, each side wants the most leverage, luckily even Ford and team at least understand the above. That is why contracts typically end after elections, best for them.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I don't believe there is a contract layoff date date for 10 mo employees. All gov't has to do is issue the lockout notices instead of layoff notices.
Yes, that is how it works unions, it is not hourly.
Like other information fails it is not min wage at "$15 per hour" and if it was CUPE workers would be making pretty much what they get on EI.... again no leverage other than the union pays it out of their war chest.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Nope. It's based on how many hours a member stands on a line, to a max of 20hrs week. It's not noted specifically in the link below, but a CUPE person I had lunch with said they get strike pay raises after 11 and 18 weeks on strike with the max around $18/hr.
Strike FAQ 2023-2024
Strike FAQ 2024 Members of CUPE 3903 Unit 1 (Teaching Assistants), Unit 2 (Contract Faculty) and Unit 3 (Graduate/Research Assistants) may vote to go on strike in February 2024. There are a lot of …
3903.cupe.ca
That's one that spells it out simply, but it's exactly the same on every CUPE chapter that actually outlines how strike pay works.
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ifiddles
Well-known member
Another thing to ponder...apparently it's on Twitter (I'm not on Twitter but lots of my colleagues are) and the buzz is that Ford/Lecce actually WANT the strike to happen because in reality they want schools to close due to the increase in numbers of children being admitted to hospital and not enough beds available...the logic is that if Ford/Lecce close schools down again, the parents will get peeved off...HOWEVER, if the schools get closed because of a strike, then Ford/Lecce don't lose (or don't lose as much) credibility...either way, the schools get closed and hopefully less kids get sick and hospitals get to a better level of bed availability...
Wouldn't put it past him if this is what he's up to...
Wouldn't put it past him if this is what he's up to...
DownUnder
Well-known member
Makes sense, dirty play but what do you expect from politicians.
I love the parsing of "Democratic principles:. 38% of the population can vote in a government that can take the rights away from 100% of the populace. Democratic principles. It would be a stretch to call this democratic unless he has at least a referendum or called for it before the election. He certainly doesn't respect democracy or he wouldn't have just created legislation that says he can unilaterally can remove elected officials. (imagine you just voted in your regional chair and Ford doesn't like them so i guess they are out). Either we have rights or we don't. Hopefully Doug doesn't take away a right you care about I guess.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I don't think I can find your point.
In a democracy, we vote in representatives through elections, if we dont like them we vote them out.
We dont elect judges in Canada... but we do allow them to make law.
EI is 55% of insurable earning up to around 60K these days. At 39K average insurable earnings that is ~$3600 for two months laid off.... Not $4500 to $6800. Math matters....
Or about $415 per week on EI. That misleading $15 and hour and 20 hours a week for strike pay is $300 per week (like you noted), less but not back breaking, they can just pick up some paper routes...., again poor leverage never mind it is not workable in the real world.
As it should be, as it should be. Your rights shouldn't blow in the wind left or right based on voter turnout. UP until now the province had never used the NWC to take away charter rights.....up until now. Either you are fine with the government of the day taking your rights away or not. Just don't pretend like you don't understand. when it is a right you value....then it is tyranny. When you don't care....it is legal.
The acid test about rights and the power of politicians to make new legeslation giving them more power or set a precedence (new low watermark, cat is out of the bag) using current powers to a greater extent:
-You might be all for it now but step back and think what if the politicians opposite of your political view then used that new power or that new precedence to their benefit in the near future. Are you cool with that? left or right, federal or provincial--it is all the same question.
-You might be all for it now but step back and think what if the politicians opposite of your political view then used that new power or that new precedence to their benefit in the near future. Are you cool with that? left or right, federal or provincial--it is all the same question.
In the USA they'e elected, usually on track record. Never admit to jailing an innocent person. Get tough on crime, as if that has worked for them.
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