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JT's not the only one handing out free money...
- Thread starter mimico_polak
- Start date
I believe the government moved maybe .5-1% maybe just for lowest earners, Begged them not to strike and to keep talking and warned that he would use legislation, they voted to strike, legislation was put in place (more heavy handed then necessary) the union offered to drop to 6% and not strike, government said to come back and negotiate if they want to negotiate, union went on strike, government said if they stop striking then legislation can be removed and they can go back to talking.
The government seems to be doing a good job as far as a hard bargain but unfortunately the heavy handed legislation really galvanized unions both private and public. I think there is going to be allot of tough negotiations coming for both the private and public sector in the next year or two.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
It
Having contracts expire anytime during the summer recess will never happen -- unions are dead set against that for obvious reasons.
wonderings
Well-known member
Not saying the government is not part of the problem here, I do think coming with a crazy high price and expecting to get that and not budge is a little different then the government going in low and saying they won't budge. If I came in and said I want a 12% raise, and the employer says most we will give is 2% I would think my next step would be to try and find that middle group saying ok how about 7% and try and push things on that way.
Job security irks me. The world is in flux. Things change. Neighbourhoods grow, age out and shrink. Immigration changes the type of teaching but also restores growth. Emails have replaced the daily mail. WFH and Learn from home.
If the government ran Block Buster Video and they had job security the stores would still be open but doing nothing. There would be instructors teaching VCR repairs.
If Canada is to prosper EVERY LAST PERSON in the country has to learn to adapt to changes. Unfortunately we have too many old farts high up in the system that still want to do things the old way, simply because they can't understand the new way. Therefore, to them, the new way is wrong.
By all means keep some heritage trades but knob and tube wiring isn't coming back.
I agree, that was just an example of things that unions have fought hard for in the past. Having any employee invincible by contract is bad for other employees and the business.
Even if contracts expired at the end of June....
- First most of CUPE are not paid over the summer, so it is a defacto beginning of the school year as the summer is nothing to them.
- Teachers are paid 10 over 12 by contract so the summer pay is pay already earned in the past 10 months. Lock them out, that money is still owed legally.
- Even IF the above two were overcome, the only leverage is to lock out people that are not at work anyways... because the unions can just sit at the table until September.
- In all three cases a June end provides near 0 leverage... I would hope by now the above would be understood by most people????
A great strategic example was Sweaty Bob making the Toronto garbage contract (the employees not the contracted out portion) end right after the PanAm games, not before, taking their leverage of a strike before away. Major win for the city no one talks about much.
It doesn't matter what your demands are if the government will not come to the table.....
you are quoting no one! How is Ford genius looking now? We have a strike again! The guy is a genius!
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Lets see how it plays out. They have reached a deal on wages, the outstanding points are related to growing the size of the union's workforce.
CUPE wants guarantees the gov't will increase staffing levels to what they see fit.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The main concern the unions have is a lockout. In the case of a lockout, 10mo employees get strike pay at the union's expense, and cannot collect UI. It's not a concern for teachers as their deal is based on a daily salary paid over a yearly schedule. It's specifically architected that way (as opposed to an annual salary) to minimize the impact of a lockout or strike. I can't see them ever accepting an annual salary.
Got it....this was all part of the plan. To stonewall and then give up the hardline after the kids lose school and they say darn it they are striking again! Genius.
Wow, really, lol????
Actually teachers once were paid 10 over 10 (long ago). Then it was made optional to get 10 over 12 or 10 over 10. Now there is no choice on this one but some may be old enough to be grandfathered in at 10 over 10. Why (and it is not optional anymore), it saves the government money (basic TVM 101) to spread pay for 10 months over 12 months. The benefit to teachers is they don't need to manage their money to save for summer.
Lockout CUPE in summer, most are not getting paid anyways, why do they care?. Lockout teachers in summer and you are paying them anyways as it is deferred pay, why do they care? June contract date gets no additional bargaining power.
Everyday on strike (school year) is not paid by the government/taxpayer. Many past governments let them sit out for a while (teachers, CUPE, OPSEU....) before legislating them back (in a school year), lots of reasons but one is because they save money not paying them AND they do not give them back pay for days on strike (obviously). It is not like a factory worker where there is lost revenue (line down) vs saved wages, it is all a cost centre here. The one day strike this year by CUPE is a roughly $8M savings for the provincial government/taxpayer, if they are back out Monday, another $8M a day (give or take). The issue on this last point for the Ford government is they politically made a point of kids being in schools so the savings do not outstrip their political cost, also played their ace at the wrong time--otherwise they could have just let them sit and sweat for a week or two while everyone just goes online--then mandate them back.
The best leverage the union has is no janitors means the schools are closed. The best leverage the government HAD was they could have let them sit for a week or two with kids online and then start talking contracting out janitorial...
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AllistonGT
Well-known member
And thats how the union (It's a business) gets paid.
Why bother? Union proved that laws don't matter to them.
The fines would add up and bring the debt down or pay the interest.
Meanwhile, it might make the union more inclined to sit at the table.
the irony
You can disagree with what the politicians did but it was legal. The union violated a law.
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