jacket elbow, shoulder and back armour/padding

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daught said:
When it collapses, if it collapses, it pushes on the padding underneath it, and like you said it's no different. I just cant see the harm in having a hard shell on top of a energy absorbing pad as opposed to the same energy absorbing pad by itself.
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The amount of broken elbows with hard armour can probably prove that. I think most are getting slightly confused on the word "soft" Soft armour which is engineered is not really that soft If we use Forcefield as an example. The outsde shell or surface is a hard rubber type texture with shapes moulded into it depth wise.
So it is pretty hard and then as you get inside it turns solid and body heat would soften it up.
Hard plastic with out a doubt will transfer any or all energy right through.
As I see more riders that have hit the ground then neary anyone,,,hard armour is painful and not affective. It gives you a mental sense of protection but is very old school in today's sport. Not to mention a lot of it is dumped into the North American market as we have no controlling body protecting riders. So where it might not be marketable in Europe it is here.
 
john bickle said:
The amount of broken elbows with hard armour can probably prove that. I think most are getting slightly confused on the word "soft" Soft armour which is engineered is not really that soft If we use Forcefield as an example. The outsde shell or surface is a hard rubber type texture with shapes moulded into it depth wise.
So it is pretty hard and then as you get inside it turns solid and body heat would soften it up.
Hard plastic with out a doubt will transfer any or all energy right through.
As I see more riders that have hit the ground then neary anyone,,,hard armour is painful and not affective. It gives you a mental sense of protection but is very old school in today's sport. Not to mention a lot of it is dumped into the North American market as we have no controlling body protecting riders. So where it might not be marketable in Europe it is here.
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Alright you win :) Do you know any place that has forcefield proshirt around here?

ProShirt%20front%20M.jpg
 
If I recall bickleracing used to carry Forcefield and so does Bluestreak racing. If they don't I am sure they can get it for you. Good choice on going with Forcefield top notch stuff, I don't even notice i've got armour on. The good thing is it keeps its performance over repeated impacts and isn't a throw away item.
 
NealT said:
I would say the plastic shell depends on a mechanical transference of force, the hardness of the plastic moves some force to the attachment points depending on the shape, other than that I would think the remaining impact force travels directly to the inner foam at point of impact. The soft armour uses the properties of the material instead, at point of impact the molecular structure of the material transmits the force throughout the entire structure evenly.

An example I can think of is hitting a piece of soft piece of wood with a plastic sheet on top. If tapped lightly you won't see deformation in the wood. If hit just hard enough the outline of the hammer head is pushed into the wood. The soft armour on the other hand would be similar to the hammer head instantly increasing in surface area at the instant of impact. So the issue would be the force at which either method dents the wood. The thing is that good soft armour generally behaves and dissipates energy pretty much the same anywhere on the material surface(at the center or closer to the edges).
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LOL@armchair expertise.... u need to tone it down a notch here man, unless you have test data to back up these claims.

In general, we can all provide some thought as to what we "think" might happen, but you're getting way too specific w/o actually having done anything.
 
maybe, but it just takes a little research and some high school physics and you can get a pretty good idea of generalities, my example I've replicated a few times doing some job or another. The material properties of nytrex and some of the other materials can be found on the weeb not a big deal really. In the end given enough force all armour will give up.
 
You have to remember tho the human body has it's own set of energy dispersal factors that work in conjunction with any armor that is in addition. Like airbags armor reduces or eliminates the "spike" in severe force by spreading it over space and time.

It's pretty complex physics going on and a shoulder is different set of requirements than a knee for instance.

Motocrossers do take lots of spills as a matter of course and I look to their gear for cost effective protection that is light.

I'm sure there is top notch road racing gear but not all are willing to spend at that level.

Low speed spills are far and away the most frequent and an Australian study showed that in real life high speed accidents the gear level was a not a mortality predictor.

Still this is a good thread and I like the move to armor worn against the body ( in my case knee and shin ) as opposed to say armour in the riding pants.

Same thing with the armoured shorts - comfie and cool compared to ballistic pants.
 
johnp said:
which is why airline pilots don't wear body armour for example [humour OK?]



why so? less chance of moving off target?
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I think so, I wear armour as separate pieces as well though I have to admit to still relying on the shoulder and elbow armour built into my jackets(they aren't great compared to my Forcefield). The armoured shirt daught posted looks like a good option,though those airbag jackets have me hesitating on further armour purchases.
 
why so? less chance of moving off target?
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Yes, I know it's positioned correctly plus I can choose the outer layer anywhere from Kevlar sliders to shorts and pick the mix I want.
If that armored shirt is as cool as the armored shorts I might consider it on days when even the mesh is too warm and a technical shirt feels nice. Motocross guys have cool stuff ( their chest armor is amazing _ UNDER their shirts and only technical motocross shirts - nothing ballistic, leather or mesh - on top and they take crazy tumbles.
Even their gloves are a neat mix of cool and armored.

My armor is mostly for my dual sport stuff and nice security blanket when I occasionally get on the dirt roads to the north of us on the Burgman. That and low speed stupid.:rolleyes:
In Australia heat is an issue nearly always....so individual bits are good.

Some of people seem to be able to ride in ballistic or leather head to toe all the time .....not for me.
 
Hmmm I was looking at forcefield stuff and noticed they actually have different levels of armor. Thought I had it all figured out :(

For example the Extreme Harness Adventure chest piece is not even rated to EN1621-1. The base proshirt elbow, shoulder and chest is rated to 70J. http://www.johnsonleather.com offers the shirt with the option to upgrade to 100J

All the stand alone knee armor is rated to 70J. 100J inserts are available.

How good is this armor for multiple impacts? Is it truly a reusable armor? Can I crash in it while mountain biking and then use it while riding my motorcycle?
 
daught said:
Hmmm I was looking at forcefield stuff and noticed they actually have different levels of armor. Thought I had it all figured out :(

For example the Extreme Harness Adventure chest piece is not even rated to EN1621-1. The base proshirt elbow, shoulder and chest is rated to 70J. http://www.johnsonleather.com offers the shirt with the option to upgrade to 100J

All the stand alone knee armor is rated to 70J. 100J inserts are available.

How good is this armor for multiple impacts? Is it truly a reusable armor? Can I crash in it while mountain biking and then use it while riding my motorcycle?
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yes
 
I was wondering is there a place that go to to take a look at these (ie figure sizing) or would I be stuck ordering online?

Edit: I was referring to the knee inserts that would go into a pair of riding pants from force field. Apparently they don't have a distributor in Canada according to their website 0_o.
 
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mongol777 said:
sas-tec is quite uniuque in soft amor - I belive it is based on military tehcnology principle used to manufacture shoes for explosives techs.
idea is to create normal sole which is soft and comfy but will become hard at the moment of explosion and will absorb most of it's energy (within limits of course). I know revit and scorpion use it in their gear (in revit it actually considered upgraded armor in entry level jackets)
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Sas-tec sounds very similar to 3do shock-reactive soft armour technology, but seems to offer better protection. I wasn't sure if it was the same company or not, as I thought 3do was proprietary, but this youtube clip suggests that it is a different company based out of Germany:
[video=youtube_share;eQyOXTta794]http://youtu.be/eQyOXTta794?hd=1&t=4m25s[/video]
 
NealT said:
I did read that d3O was very good, works similarly to Nytrex.
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are you referring to the product in Forcefield armour? If so, then d3o and Nitrex do not work the same way.

d3o (and apparently sas-tec) is a very soft and pliable foam armour that temporarily hardens on impact dissipating the energy over a larger body area and providing some impact absorption

Forcefield Nitrex is a rubber-like molded product which is extremely good at absorbing the energy of an impact. It does not appear to be anywhere as pliable as the d3o or sas-tec products.
 
BusaBob said:
are you referring to the product in Forcefield armour? If so, then d3o and Nitrex do not work the same way.

d3o (and apparently sas-tec) is a very soft and pliable foam armour that temporarily hardens on impact dissipating the energy over a larger body area and providing some impact absorption

Forcefield Nitrex is a rubber-like molded product which is extremely good at absorbing the energy of an impact. It does not appear to be anywhere as pliable as the d3o or sas-tec products.
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The Sas-Tec stuff would be similar in function to the visco-elastic foam that I mentioned is used in Aerostich suits. It resists rapid compression, buy is otherwise soft and pliable.
 
Here's the Sas-Tec catalogue and price list.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=1pEIqjlcJnwYYVXH3C_XHgmF5bNCLGy-uD1QVGtRHD3Yo2LoIbimEisTJEFm0

I don't know what I am looking at btw. Not in the market immediately to replace my stuff but if someone is buying, let me know your recommendations.

and here's the email I got from them.


"Hello,

we are the official dealer of SASTEC Protectors for customers.

We send you in the attachment a price list of all SASTEC Protectors.

the shipping costs are 17,- € to Canada max. up to 2 Kilogram.



Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Tommy's Fundgrube
Tommy Vogel
Heilbronnerstr. 101

70191 Stuttgart

Tel: 0711/2572333
Fax: 0711/2562335
mailto:info@tommys-fundgrube.de
www.tommys-fundgrube.de "
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