jacket elbow, shoulder and back armour/padding

5:12

5:12

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hello peeps,

i wrote armour/padding just to differentiate.

armour being the hard plastic type and padding being the soft spongy foam ones.

so the question is, which one is better? any techincal data, lab tests etc? or does this again come down to personal preference? if personal preference then share why you prefer one over the other.

what's their advantages/disadvantages?!

thanks.
 
Padding - absorbs the impact forces

Armour - is for abrasion resistance

Most mid priced jackets I see have CE armour the yellow foam molded to fit the elbow and back area's. This will do fine for most impacts, nothing will save you at 120mph against a truck. My personal preference is towards hard armour, unsure if it will prove useful over CE but I like the "cupped" feel more.
 
I've also been curious about this. I see the pads in my ICON CONTRA are the soft yellow foam CE ones and I'd like to replace them as well as upgrading to the Stryker back protector instead of that flimsy one that comes with the jacket.
 
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The best is a combination of the two; foam to absorb the impact and the hard shell to protect against deformation from the initial impact, and abrasion.
 
whatever will fit you the best and most comfortably.

All the armour in the world won't help you if it's in your closet because it's not comfortable for you to wear for more than 20 mins.
 
I went with sas-tec in couple of my jackets. Got full kit (elbows, shoulders and back) from dragging jeans, came out to around 133 shipped, taxes, duties, etc. It is super comfy.
 
I just got home from a trip along Lakeshore Blvd West. Was amazed at how many guys (and girls) were crusing around down there in their T-Shirts and it's not even hot yet..
 
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Johnny5 said:
I just got home from a trip along Lakeshore Blvd West. Was amazed at how many guys (and girls) where crusing around down there in their T-Shirts and it's not even hot yet..
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Yep. They're "not going fast" like scooter people so don't need to wear anything else ;)
 
Rob MacLennan said:
The best is a combination of the two; foam to absorb the impact and the hard shell to protect against deformation from the initial impact, and abrasion.
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+1

I am surprised that there's even discussion about this.

Imagine a bullet proof vest that is soft and pliable [edit]. The bullet doesn't go through the vest but the bullet punches the vest right through you. As Rob says that bullet proof vest must not deform and so can spread the impact of the bullet over a big area. So now instead of a hole, you get a really big bruise.

Likewise with body armour.
 
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sas-tec is quite uniuque in soft amor - I belive it is based on military tehcnology principle used to manufacture shoes for explosives techs.
idea is to create normal sole which is soft and comfy but will become hard at the moment of explosion and will absorb most of it's energy (within limits of course). I know revit and scorpion use it in their gear (in revit it actually considered upgraded armor in entry level jackets)
 
johnp said:
+1

I am surprised that there's even discussion about this.

Imagine a bullet proof vest that is soft and pliable [edit]. The bullet doesn't go through the vest but the bullet punches the vest right through you. As Rob says that bullet proof vest must not deform and so can spread the impact of the bullet over a big area. So now instead of a hole, you get a really big bruise.

Likewise with body armour.
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Good analogy. Civilian and law enforcement 'bullet resistant' vests use layers of Kevlar, to slow and stop a bullet as it passes through. Military body armour uses ceramics and composites to kill off the energy of the bullet, then layers of Kevlar as a back-up for what gets through.
 
The best is a combination of the two; foam to absorb the impact and the hard shell to protect against deformation from the initial impact, and abrasion.
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Yup - the cupping of the hard armour positions all the armor to protect what it is designed for. It cups shoulder and elbow and ( if you are wearing them ) knees.

Otherwise when you are twisting in a fall you could move outside the padding coverage. My JR mesh jacket has shoulder and elbow hard armor plus padded shoulders - I really don't feel any weight or movement difference with the hard armour in or out.

I fell reasonably hard ( zero speed on a hill off road forest track) and never felt a thing on shoulder and elbow but unarmoured hip was sore - so knew I hit hard enough to have bruises without the jacket armour. Impressed me how well the arm and shoulder protection worked.

For those like me that don't like heavy ballistic pants - motocross knee/shin armor is cheap and light and I found some armoured undershorts that have both padding and hard armour hip protection that also feel great. And the compression ( like bicycle shorts )_ seems to reduce monkey butt

I like gear that I'm not aware of some of the stuff available is so light that you forget it's on.
 
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The one thing I dislike about hard armour currently, correct me if things have changed but I don't see hard armour with an underlayer of material like the sas-tec foam or the Forcefield nytrex, usually it's a layer or two of wet suit material.

This just means they have transferred all of the energy dissipation to the hard plastic thus it's doing all the work(plus it isn't that strong anyway just a thinner plastic that seems to have a higher polyethylene? content to allow deformation as opposed to cracking when hit hard).

A combo to me sounds like a better solution. I guess the other thing with hard armour is that you either fit it well or or not, soft armour is at least conformable so can be a better fit in a wider number of cases.
 
NealT said:
The one thing I dislike about hard armour currently, correct me if things have changed but I don't see hard armour with an underlayer of material like the sas-tec foam or the Forcefield nytrex, usually it's a layer or two of wet suit material.

This just means they have transferred all of the energy dissipation to the hard plastic thus it's doing all the work(plus it isn't that strong anyway just a thinner plastic that seems to have a higher polyethylene? content to allow deformation as opposed to cracking when hit hard).

A combo to me sounds like a better solution. I guess the other thing with hard armour is that you either fit it well or or not, soft armour is at least conformable so can be a better fit in a wider number of cases.
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I thought that the dainese armor had foam first and then the plastic shell.

I used to have a Dainese X-Space Air armour jacket and had CE approved armour. The outer shell was a hard, flexible plastic, backed with open cell foam. The trick was that the actual normal impact points (elbows, knees, shoulders) were under a sort of blister, in the hard plastic armour, that would presumably collapse to absorb impact in a crash.
 
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NealT said:
The one thing I dislike about hard armour currently, correct me if things have changed but I don't see hard armour with an underlayer of material like the sas-tec foam or the Forcefield nytrex, usually it's a layer or two of wet suit material.

This just means they have transferred all of the energy dissipation to the hard plastic thus it's doing all the work(plus it isn't that strong anyway just a thinner plastic that seems to have a higher polyethylene? content to allow deformation as opposed to cracking when hit hard).

A combo to me sounds like a better solution. I guess the other thing with hard armour is that you either fit it well or or not, soft armour is at least conformable so can be a better fit in a wider number of cases.
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A few years back Aerostich started using their 'memory cell' visco-elastic foam armour, modified with a semi-rigid back plate. The back plate largely keeps its shape, in an impact, while it and the visco-elastic foam help to spread the impact energy over a wider area. This helps to avoid point loads, that cause greater injury.

http://www.aerostich.com/aerostich-suits/tf-pads/medium-tf3-hard-shell-replacement-pads.html
 
I have CE protectors in my jacket, and have yet to upgrade, as I have only recently discovered something worthy of spending my money on:

I will get as many replacement pads for my existing gear, and try to find new products that feature d3o protection pads. http://www.d3o.com/

I have these in my 661 mountain bike knee guards, and I officially SWEAR by them. They've taken a lot of abuse, but one instance of bashing my knee cap directly onto the apex of a pointed rock at a decent speed (for a bicycle), and all that amounted was a small amount of pain (not even bruising). I would've lost a knee-cap for sure.

Apparently its a special proprietary rubber-like material that hardens on impact... it also is formed in a honey-comb shape to distribute the impact as widely as possible. Brilliant.
 
OpenGambit said:
I thought that the dainese armor had foam first and then the plastic shell.
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It might but never looked into what the armour is composed of. I use a set of knee pads from downhill bicycling that are tagged(literally) as meeting CE level 1 certification and it has a hard shell backed up with what feels very much like perforated neoprene.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
A few years back Aerostich started using their 'memory cell' visco-elastic foam armour, modified with a semi-rigid back plate. The back plate largely keeps its shape, in an impact, while it and the visco-elastic foam help to spread the impact energy over a wider area. This helps to avoid point loads, that cause greater injury.

http://www.aerostich.com/aerostich-suits/tf-pads/medium-tf3-hard-shell-replacement-pads.html
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hmmm...good to know, hopefully more manufacturers move that way, now if only they could all get their armour to test sub 4 kn in impact like horse riding armour does.
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