ItIsWhatItIs
Banned
If you win the lottery, all of a sudden you are high society? ok, here comes the beverly hill billies.
Is Ontario Ready for "Right to Work" Legislation?
- Thread starter ItIsWhatItIs
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If you win the lottery, all of a sudden you are high society? ok, here comes the beverly hill billies.
From your link:
In February 2009, The Economist announced that over half the world's population now belongs to the middle class, as a result of rapid growth in emerging countries. It characterized the middle class as having a reasonable amount of discretionary income, so that they do not live from hand to mouth as the poor do, and defined it as beginning at the point where people have roughly a third of their income left for discretionary spending after paying for basic food and shelter
In February 2009, The Economist announced that over half the world's population now belongs to the middle class, as a result of rapid growth in emerging countries. It characterized the middle class as having a reasonable amount of discretionary income, so that they do not live from hand to mouth as the poor do, and defined it as beginning at the point where people have roughly a third of their income left for discretionary spending after paying for basic food and shelter
ItIsWhatItIs
Banned
It's wikipedia you take it with a grain of salt. I must be upper class as I have over 50% discretionary income.
I ride a cbr125 and do other things to keep costs down, yet I exceed this definition. Money is not the definer of class.
I feel that if the unions want to have a future in North America, one of their priorities should be to change the work ethic of their members. As so eloquently put in post #34, and also seen first hand in the field, unions promote slacking (under various disguises) and with that comes loss of productivity. Companies don't like that and will fight tooth and nail against unions or they will just send the jobs elsewhere. I don't know how does a Germany autoworker performs at his job, but I doubt they have taken an aveerage of 16 sick days per year.
A good PR will also help, remember the garbage strike in Toronto a few years back? Harrasing the citizens while dropping off their garbage didn't help in the long run.
A good PR will also help, remember the garbage strike in Toronto a few years back? Harrasing the citizens while dropping off their garbage didn't help in the long run.
Just like the teachers pissing me and most other parents off.
I've heard that in Sweden they have a union rep sit on the board of directors as an observer. The workers and management work hand in hand in making the company successful.
Workers need to be realistic. I work in a warehouse where the heaviest thing to lift is a 35lb pallet, and that's few and far between. Most of the guys working the floor are making almost 22$ an hour and have no post secondary education. They still ***** and complain about being questioned when their numbers drop below average.
Sometimes people need to take a step back and thank the company when they sit down at night for dinner with their families. Without the company they wouldn't have food to feed them.
It's wikipedia you take it with a grain of salt. I must be upper class as I have over 50% discretionary income.
Why did you post the link......to contradict yourself?
$35 an jour gets you middle class quite handily.
ItIsWhatItIs
Banned
I suggest people read the link for themselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_class
The middle class is a class of people in the middle of a societal hierarchy. In Weberian socio-economic terms, the middle class is the broad group of people in contemporary society who fall socio-economically between the working class and upper class. The common measures of what constitutes middle class vary significantly between cultures
A unionized auto worker working on the line does neet meet this definition of middle class. Perhaps you should check out this link for a better definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class
Stop deluding yourself, making 35 an hour in of itself does not make you middleclass.
We just had a meeting within our shift that lasted 45 minutes because they introduced an average system that they'll start implementing this month with disciplinary measures if not met. They had averages before but never enforced. It lasted 45 minutes because most of the workers were moaning about monthly peer averages starting at 81% while the standard is 100% and it's easy to get over 100%. But the company just wants us to achieve the peer average and not the industry standard.
These guys make over $26/hour with overtime pretty much everyday for them because of their high seniority they average out to $80k + per year with no college education. The job is easy in itself. Not much heavy lifting mostly 10 lbs or less. The company just wants to weed out the lazy people standing around talking all day.
But of course the union will fight this in court.
It is not the unions job to stand up for the individual worker. Their mandate is to stand for the overall body. If they went on strike over every grievance they wouldn't be able to fight the big fights. It doesn't help if the steward doesn't like you.
Right to work is a misnomer IMO. You can be fired without just cause because no one is going to fight for you. Where is that a right?
I can see "right to work" in a religious connotation in that some very strict religions will not be dependant on an earthly power. Unions, the power grid etc. Under the rand formula they can, I believe, work in a union plant without being a member of the union but must pay the dues because they benefit from the agreements. No right to grievances, strike pay etc.
ItIsWhatItIs
Banned
Unions construct agreements below the standards of the ESA and the OHSA. Even though in the ESA, there is no contracting out period the unions get away with this. Essentially the MOL receives a copy of a collective agreement and doesn't really look at it. If a worker has an issue and the union will not help them they have to file a complaint against the Union (not the employer) with the labour relations board. In the meantime the company is able to continue its abuse on the employee because the union refuses to stop the employer from abusing the employee via the grievance process. Unions are corrupt and I have witnessed this corruption. The fact is, the US has 24 states that have implemented right to work legislation. It's only a matter of time before the number of states implementing increases. The US is going to print, yes print 65 Billion dollars a month until their unemployment is down to 6 percent. Canada owes 600 billion, and the US will create this money out of thin air in a matter of ten months. Ontario will not be able to compete against the US with this kind of money being flooded into the US and Sadly michigan will get Ontario's auto assembly jobs. Ask London's Electro motive workers how their job search is going, Ontario's auto workers will need some tips.
You are making sweeping generalizations of all unions and as many have already pointed out, not every union is like you say they are. This legislation is going to negatively impact all unions, not just ones in the manufacturing sector. If unions need to change their game plan because their jobs and livelihood are in jeopardy, it's up to those unions to do that and to face the consequences if they don't. The government shouldn't be cutting the legs from under all unions because some are problematic and they don't want to be associated with the loss of jobs.
ItIsWhatItIs
Banned
Unions have the power to be corrupt, and they are corrupt. Not only are unions constructing agreements below the ESA and OHSA. Collective agreements agreed on come at the expense of new workers. They often don't get the vacation days and pensions older workers get. Not only are they not getting those benefits they are starting at a lower pay. Unions have done this to themselves. Being corrupt has its price, 24 states in the US and climbing. Ontario will lose its auto sector to michigan. I often look for positions to apply to, and I have seen positions advertised at Georgian Downs for Dishwasher for $11 and something as per collective agreement? Really? WTF, minimum wage is 10.75, take the union dues away and the person will be making less than minimum wage. Why the eff should someone pay dues towards a document of garbage. The sooner Ontario gets with the program, the sooner properity can return to Ontario.
Another cancer to Ontario is employment agencies, another area that requires redress.
IMO opinion the corruption in unions comes from ignorance in the rank and file. If the rank and file are stupid enough to believe exagerated demands are going to be met they are setting themselves up for disaster. Successful union / management relationships are best done through honest, intellegent dialog. However if one want's dictatorial power then honesty and transparency doesn't usually pay.
Internationally the situation isn't that simple. Auto exports are a big part of our free trade agreement but part of the agreement is also American access to our oil. I'm not sure if they want to give that up in a re-negotiation.
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ItIsWhatItIs
Banned
What does the auto sector have to do with NAFTA? What planet are you on, inking trade deals is what its all about. The conservatives are trying get a deal with Japan and Europe. Honda and Toyota are not unionized and they have a huge presence in Ontario. However, they use the other cancer of Ontario: employment agencies which also has to be erradicated.
The Germans get more holidays than we do....they have "happy" workers which means their productivity is pretty good too. The reason people here take so many sick days is because they get so little vacation time.
It's even worse in South America and their productivity isn't exactly stellar compared to ours.
If $26 an hour is the base rate then they have to work over 700 hours of OT to make 80K !
Red_Liner740
Well-known member
It works out to be 12.5 hours a week in OT. That takes into account a basic 1.5 OT rate. I'm sure the Union has secure double time or plus for certain conditions. Trust me 80K isnt hard. I knew guys at the airport who did minimum extra 20 hours a week.
Hell my record is 201 hours in a 2 week period and for two months i was averaging 70 hour work weeks.
Hell my record is 201 hours in a 2 week period and for two months i was averaging 70 hour work weeks.
are you basing this on 1.5 times for o/t? Because we get paid 1.5times for first 3 hours and double pay after the 3 hours. We also get paid double for working on our 2nd day off and usually allowed to work 12 hours max. I've worked every Statutory holidays this year and that's at a rate of 2.5 for first 3 hours and triple after 3 hours for max 12 hours. They also allowed to work 13 days every 2 weeks so good luck calculating how much OT that is now to make 80K.
I'll just take my co-workers' word they make 80k+. I'm closing in that amount anyways and I'm in my 2nd year.
oh and it's 664 hours OT to make 80k if it's a straight 1.5 times or $39/hour for OT which is not the case here. The most I've done on a 2 week paycheck in OT was 66 hours OT. And that doesn't include the $0.85 shift premium for working after 6pm, $15 meal allowances and $0.85 freezer premium as well a $0.75 cent raise each year. Hooray to unions.
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