Iran - What's the deal? Bomb or not?

[palmpalm]

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As for me..I have no problem saying I'm anti-zionist as the whole idea of using a book of fairy stories as a legal land deed is beyond ridiculous. On top of that...if you are going to give a country to a particular religion, it might be a good idea to make sure there's no one living there first.

That's it not what happened. If it was what happened I would be against the State of Israel. And I know that lots of people believe that is what happened because propagandists have spread this lie so wide and far that people think it the truth. But the truth is that the Jews who already lived there and the Jews who immigrated there in the 1800s legally purchased land and settled land that nobody lived on (sand dunes for instance). In subsequent wars started by the Arabs, Jews certainly won land that had been occupied by Arabs; under international law, when a 1st country attacks another 2nd country, and the 2nd country defends itself against that attack and in so doing captures land, that land legally belongs to that 2nd country.

Zionism was not a religious movement about giving land to a religion. It was a nationalism of the Jewish people, an ethno-cultural group that grew out of European nationalism (as did the countries of Italy an Germany for instance). There was never any attempt to take anybody's land or start wars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

Some nice pictures: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~dhershkowitz/

 

[jc100]

Under International law you also have to accept the refugees displaced by that war but that's not happened, you also can't just take land that doesn't belong to you, and that has happened. There's only one big propaganda machine at work here and I'll give you a clue....it's based around the Knesset.

A religion is not a nation otherwise all Catholics should have the right to settle in Vatican City. You can't make a special case for this, Ethiopean Jews are just as Jewish as Russian Jews but no serious person should say that they share the same nationality. Equating religion to nationality is again using the bible as a land deed which it absolutely isn't unless you're totally bananas.

Horrible things happened to jews and others during the war but the remedy to this was totally screwed up by the Balfour treaty and Ben Gurion etc. Now everythng has swung 180 degrees and the Palestinians have been ****ed over completely but the main difference is the west doesn't care as much as the Palestinians don't figure into any bible prophecies that the neo con nutjobs in charge believe.

For years I haven't bought any Israeli goods because of this crap and I'll continue avoiding them until the situation is much fairer. I loved the country when I was there but I won't go back until the Palestinans are treated equally. I hope you realise that the current birth rates of the Palestinian population are higher than both immigrant and resident jews in Israel and that soon there will be a majority of palestinians. Try maintaining this sham of calling Israel a democracy when that happens.

 

[PSY]

I'd be really careful when using/quoting christian zealots to back up zionist ideals. The christians like the idea of zionism as they think it fulfills the criteria of the second coming when the end of days approaches according to the bible. Ie, they want the jews to return to the holy land so they can all be annihilated at Armageddon so the second coming can occur. I'd be really careful who you think your friends are if you're a zionist.

As for me..I have no problem saying I'm anti-zionist as the whole idea of using a book of fairy stories as a legal land deed is beyond ridiculous. On top of that...if you are going to give a country to a particular religion, it might be a good idea to make sure there's no one living there first.

I recall hearing about this. Thanks for clarifying exactly what it is.
Oh great, a bunch of organized religious nut jobs continuing the fight even after they are dead.

 

[PSY]

@Palmpalm

You seem to have a great amount of insight regarding the inner workings of Israel.

What exactly would you do with the Palestinians?

 

[palmpalm]

@Palmpalm

You seem to have a great amount of insight regarding the inner workings of Israel.

What exactly would you do with the Palestinians?

Buy them motorcycles and iced cream.

 

[shahfaisal]

Buy them motorcycles and iced cream.

Promise them a bike and ice cream if they all show at a location, then bomb the **** out of that location...

Factual event during the Gaza cleansing only with out the bike and the ice cream..:what::thumbdown:

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[PSY]

Buy them motorcycles and iced cream.

This was a really a cold calculating asinine response. I respected your position and insight however when I asked you what would you suggest or do to possibly fix the problem you obfuscated. It is interesting that others were civil and provided real examples as well as insight, yet you were the one to call them antisemitic. If you want to label them antisemitic then based upon this reply some could label you "antipalestinian" and or "prozionist".

 

[palmpalm]

This was a really a cold calculating asinine response. I respected your position and insight however when I asked you what would you suggest or do to possibly fix the problem you obfuscated. It is interesting that others were civil and provided real examples as well as insight, yet you were the one to call them antisemitic. If you want to label them antisemitic then based upon this reply some could label you "antipalestinian" and or "prozionist".

Are you dense? Of course I am prozionist. I proudly served in the IDF and most of my family continues to serve. Israel is my homeland as much as Canada. You want to ask me stupid questions, I'll give you stupid answers.

 

[PSY]

Are you dense? Of course I am prozionist. I proudly served in the IDF and most of my family continues to serve. Israel is my homeland as much as Canada. You want to ask me stupid questions, I'll give you stupid answers.

I simply asked you what you would do with the Palestinians.


I can easily alter my question to demonstrate just how callous your reply was.
What should we do with the Jews (in the camps or the Jews rounded up during Nazi rule)?
And someone here replied exactly in the manner as you "buy them bikes and ice cream."

 

[palmpalm]

I simply asked you what you would do with the Palestinians.


I can easily alter my question to demonstrate just how callous your reply was.
What should we do with the Jews (in the camps or the Jews rounded up during Nazi rule)?
And someone here replied exactly in the manner as you "buy them bikes and ice cream."

Lol. You are hilarious. To compare the Jews in Nazi death camps to the Palestinian Arabs is like comparing apples and oranges. I am beginning to think that you as we'll may be an antisemitic Jew baiter. Either that or you are remarkably ignorant of reality or just plain stupid.

 

[PSY]

Are you dense? Of course I am prozionist. I proudly served in the IDF and most of my family continues to serve. Israel is my homeland as much as Canada. You want to ask me stupid questions, I'll give you stupid answers.

How can someone have/serve two homelands?

If there was a war involving Canada and Israel which side would you fight for.
Yes, we would all want clarity for the scenario. So the example is 20 Jewish extremest hijacked and flew 5 commercial planes into buildings here killing thousands of civilians. Israel and Canada declare war with each other.

Which side will you fight for?

 

[PSY]

Lol. You are hilarious. To compare the Jews in Nazi death camps to the Palestinian Arabs is like comparing apples and oranges. I am beginning to think that you as we'll may be an antisemitic Jew baiter. Either that or you are remarkably ignorant of reality or just plain stupid.

So now you are resorting to calling me names. Uh huh.
You weighed into this. I simply asked you for examples and for your insight as a means of better understanding.

You say and see it as comparing apples to oranges.
I am different than you.
I see two fruits.

 

[palmpalm]

How can someone have/serve two homelands?

If there was a war involving Canada and Israel which side would you fight for.
Yes, we would all want clarity for the scenario. So the example is 20 Jewish extremest hijacked and flew 5 commercial planes into buildings here killing thousands of civilians. Israel and Canada declare war with each other.

Which side will you fight for?

Awwww. How cute. You are a Jew baiting antisemite.

 

[Roasted]

Uh-huh. Let's recap: "How can anyone have a serious conversation about Israel without being branded an anti-semite? Answer: you can't."

Game. Set. Match. You lose, sir.

It's been a while since I've seen this kind of ownage on any internet forum. Shaman, I tip my hat to you sir.

 

[shahfaisal]

A true critic listens to reason and can be persuaded by evidence... here we have some one who doesnt want peace.. just uses peace as a cover for grabbing more land... so lets just end this discussion and focus our energy in more usefull/healthy aspects of our life. palmpalm i hope i never meet you.. i dont want a war criminal and a genocidal maniac as a friend... you sir should be ashamed of yourself and your families involvement..

A terrorist in a uniform is still a terrorist.:sly::banghead:

"Are you dense? Of course I am prozionist. I proudly served in the IDF and most of my family continues to serve. Israel is my homeland as much as Canada. You want to ask me stupid questions, I'll give you stupid answers."

 

[Shaman]

I'm stumped. Anyone know what a jew baiter is? Not being an ACTUAL anti-semite, I haven't got a clue. Even the obvious description doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[PSY]

Awwww. How cute. You are a Jew baiting antisemite.

You have a trend here, anyone that does not agree with you or asks you for clarity is a " Jew baiting antisemite".

It would seem that in your mind you start off with labeling everyone as a "Jew baiting antisemite" and it's up to them to prove to you that they are not by accepting your views and answers. In your world it's either we are with you or we are antisemite. Good luck on that approach. There was a another guy not long ago that held the same view...Hitler.

So for someone with so much self professed insight into the Israeli Government, you offer no suggestions on how to deal with the Palestinians except to buy them bikes and ice cream.

So far, you are leaving me with the impression of yourself that is not that far off from a Nazi supporter. e.g. What should we do with the Jews in the camps? Buy them some bikes and ice cream.

One can infer that you supportive and accepting of the current situation and to watch the Palestinian's get wiped off the face of the earth by your other homeland Israel.


* side note - America had it written in their Constitution that all men were created equally, yet in another sentence a Black man was only 3/5th of a human being. It is interesting how might creates a mental delusion of right.

 

[PSY]

A true critic listens to reason and can be persuaded by evidence... here we have some one who doesnt want peace.. just uses peace as a cover for grabbing more land... so lets just end this discussion and focus our energy in more usefull/healthy aspects of our life. palmpalm i hope i never meet you.. i dont want a war criminal and a genocidal maniac as a friend... you sir should be ashamed of yourself and your families involvement..

A terrorist in a uniform is still a terrorist.:sly::banghead:

"Are you dense? Of course I am prozionist. I proudly served in the IDF and most of my family continues to serve. Israel is my homeland as much as Canada. You want to ask me stupid questions, I'll give you stupid answers."

That section in bold reminded me of another guy that used the same ideology for another country not so long ago.
I am sending my troops as peacekeepers. Please greet them. Welcome to Poland, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[jc100]

The fact that Israel has a conscript army speaks volumes to me too. Yes, it's true that comparing the holocaust with treatment of the palestinians isn't an equal comaprison by any means. However, ghetoising the palestinians and creating second class citizenry for them, denying basic human rights, using mass punishment, treating rock throwers to attacks by fighter aircraft and gunship helicopters, routinely censoring the international media (check the number of reporters killed by the IDF covering the conflict), blockades of ports and air to them, and many other instances mean that drawing the comparisons from many corners is easier than it should be.

Last but not least, labelling the UN as anti-semites is just laughable. They are one of the slowest, most beuracratic organisations we have but they still came to a concensus (despite vetos by the regular few) on how Israel deserves to be labelled a pariah state with respect to the palestinian problem.

 

[ashkan]

Aww look, how cute, another Jew-baiting antisemite.

Bahahaha, and here it is. The end of every factual argument with a Zionist lol
Everyone who likes to read history and learn about the real facts regarding Israel is anti-Semitic apparently. Does this include all the Jewish people and Jewish leaders who are also against Israel's state of apartheid and killing of innocent civilians while stealing their land and building more illegal settlement? lol yeah youre right, we are ALLLLL anti-Semitic and everyone but Zionists are wrong.
On a side note, i love how when an Israeli civilian dies, the media goes on a frenzy but when thousands of Palestinian civilians die, all western media outlets turn a blind eye and whistle away. Maybe they think Israeli blood is more valuable than that of a Palestinian child but to to the rest of us, theyre equal.
I think so far youve used your anti_Semitic card a few times in this thread. Lets see how many of us will be called that by you because we expose Israel's horrific murders and land grabs lool and gladly, no one cares anymore. maybe 20 years ago people would feel bad if they were called anti-Semitic but people like you have misused it so much that its lost its value and effect.
p.s (and this is not for you palm palm, this is for whoever else is reading this) for the 5th time, im talking about Israel's policies and not Jewish people. Those are separate things. Most Zionist maybe Jewish but not all Jews are Zionists.

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