Increase Ontario welfare rates

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AF4iK said:
It wasn't directed at you or anyone specifically. I wanted to provide a real example of a case where welfare was used for it's intended purpose and had a positive effect on society. No hostility intended or felt on my part.

Case in point. This one is directed at rbjeepthing but still sans hostility. It's this type of misconception I'd like to dispell. I admire your perseverance and can identify with it (I was kicked out of my home too by my former step-father). But being a young man and watching out for #1 is a lot different than having to take care of a family. Even as a single person, not everyone has your strength. Some people can accept that they need help to stand up again.
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The amount of money you get from welfare is still not enough. You can actually make more money working at Tim Hortons then you can collecting from welfare. There are plenty of community programs that will your family out. It's not easy but society's sense of entitlement these days is way to much.

fastar1 said:
You pretty much rock, but you can't take your situation as a worst-case scenario.

Be fair now, you had zero responsibilities (kids, elderly, property) and some support systems (high school, community centres). Adults, or people with family and/or belongings, they can't get away from welfare like you could, especially in rural areas. Not only that, but if all million (or whatever) welfare recipients lived like you did, there would be a whole host of other problems to deal with.

So no, there are plenty of valid 'excuses' even if there are a lot of people who are just plain lazy on welfare.
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There is the "housing" thrown in. I had to sell/pawn everything I owned and start fresh. People don't like giving up things they already have because it's going to change how society views you. If you currently own a house the way I see it you can either be a mooch on the system or a swallow your pride and downsize or rent.

If you cant receive the support you think you require in your community then its time to start looking else where. Yes you are going to have to sacrifice things and if you have a family then they will as well.
 
rbjeepthing said:
The amount of money you get from welfare is still not enough. You can actually make more money working at Tim Hortons then you can collecting from welfare. There are plenty of community programs that will your family out. It's not easy but society's sense of entitlement these days is way to much.



There is the "housing" thrown in. I had to sell/pawn everything I owned and start fresh. People don't like giving up things they already have because it's going to change how society views you. If you currently own a house the way I see it you can either be a mooch on the system or a swallow your pride and downsize or rent.

If you cant receive the support you think you require in your community then its time to start looking else where. Yes you are going to have to sacrifice things and if you have a family then they will as well.
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I couldn't agree more. Everyone believes that they're entitled to everything. No one wants to work for it, they think they "deserve" it.
 
rbjeepthing said:
The amount of money you get from welfare is still not enough. You can actually make more money working at Tim Hortons then you can collecting from welfare. There are plenty of community programs that will your family out. It's not easy but society's sense of entitlement these days is way to much.
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Paul1000RR said:
I couldn't agree more. Everyone believes that they're entitled to everything. No one wants to work for it, they think they "deserve" it.
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I don't know what you guys are talking about now... this doesn't have anything to do with entitlement (though I agree with your sentiment in general rbjeepthing), that's a completely separate topic. The benefit exists, it helps people legitimately and unfortunately some people take advantage of it too. Not everyone on welfare is a lazy bum but some are. Simple concepts. You can't generalize out of irritation because not everyone handles life the same way you do.

As for the income, I'm sure you can make a bit more money working certain jobs but that's 8 hours a day you could be spending in school or training for a non-dead-end job that could actually lead to a better life. It might be fine if you're flying solo but people with families don't have that luxury. I'm not saying it's impossible, but consider the statistical probabilities. Why not accept the assistance?
 
rbjeepthing said:
There is the "housing" thrown in. I had to sell/pawn everything I owned and start fresh. People don't like giving up things they already have because it's going to change how society views you. If you currently own a house the way I see it you can either be a mooch on the system or a swallow your pride and downsize or rent.

If you cant receive the support you think you require in your community then its time to start looking else where. Yes you are going to have to sacrifice things and if you have a family then they will as well.
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You didn't have dependents and thats a huge difference. Welfare is definitely about those dependents and the point is that there are some things those dependents should not have to sacrifice, like their education.
 
Paul1000RR said:
I couldn't agree more. Everyone believes that they're entitled to everything. No one wants to work for it, they think they "deserve" it.
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I agree, but this goes hand-in-hand with a sense of dignity.

By stripping away benefits from people at risk, I think you disrupt the dignity these people need to then value their lives, and make better choices going forward.

It's a hard balance between the system being a landing pad for those in need vs. a sinkhole for money.
 
if i was pm i would make it imposible to get more money if you are on w/f and you have more kids.
meaning if you have a kid then go on w/f if you have anymore kids after you are not intitled to get anymore money.im pretty sure the number of single w/f moms with more then 1 kid would drop.
i know more then one women that gets knocked up every 4 years just so she does not have to work. she has 5 kids now.
at the end of the day the projets never gets smaller...stupid is as stupid does.
 
AF4iK said:
I don't know what you guys are talking about now... this doesn't have anything to do with entitlement (though I agree with your sentiment in general rbjeepthing), that's a completely separate topic. The benefit exists, it helps people legitimately and unfortunately some people take advantage of it too. Not everyone on welfare is a lazy bum but some are. Simple concepts. You can't generalize out of irritation because not everyone handles life the same way you do.

As for the income, I'm sure you can make a bit more money working certain jobs but that's 8 hours a day you could be spending in school or training for a non-dead-end job that could actually lead to a better life. It might be fine if you're flying solo but people with families don't have that luxury. I'm not saying it's impossible, but consider the statistical probabilities. Why not accept the assistance?
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I see this "assistance" every night going to and from work. I work by a ****** part of the city with all the government housing. The same guys are sitting out front drinking a 40 when im on my way to work at 4 pm as when im getting back around 1,2,3 sometimes 4 am.
 
Paul1000RR said:
I see this "assistance" every night going to and from work. I work by a ****** part of the city with all the government housing. The same guys are sitting out front drinking a 40 when im on my way to work at 4 pm as when im getting back around 1,2,3 sometimes 4 am.
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Idiots. Hasn't anyone told them it's cold out?
 
freedomfighter said:
if i was pm i would make it imposible to get more money if you are on w/f and you have more kids.
meaning if you have a kid then go on w/f if you have anymore kids after you are not intitled to get anymore money.im pretty sure the number of single w/f moms with more then 1 kid would drop.
i know more then one women that gets knocked up every 4 years just so she does not have to work. she has 5 kids now.
at the end of the day the projets never gets smaller...stupid is as stupid does.
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HUH? Are you for real? Not all guys stick around? Do you know how much it costs for Daycare and other expenses for raising a kid? I would rather see canada populated this way than through the ungrateful immigrants with their entitled attitudes.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
Our system is built on the principle of reforming the criminals while keeping them away from the society.
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And a good way to reform them is to give them the structure and get them into the mindset of holding down a job, which prison work programs would provide.

But with your usual agro-militant ultra left wing stance on here, you'll never be caught dead admitting that it's even remotely plausible.
 
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I know many people on welfare.

I'll preface this by saying I LOVE the idea of welfare for helping people get back on their feet. The problem is, all of them I know have been on welfare their entire working-age lives. Most of them dropped out of highschool and can't be bothered to so much as take the super-easy courses required to get a high school diploma. They just live off it while they smoke up or make babies, or both. I do not approve of giving these people more money. The guy that lost his job and needs some help for a year or two, sure. The guy that's now 35 with no high school and has been on welfare since he was 18, no pity from me.

Also, half of them I've met are on disability. Yet there is nothing wrong with them. I really don't understand how they get disability.

I hate when I hear them bitching about how hard their lives are when they have 4 kids with 4 dudes and another in the oven with another dude (or the opposite for men). Stop making stupid decisions and your life will improve. It's not that complicated.
 
here is a good example. today my g/f and a couple were on young street today. now we walk pass some dude sleeping in a store door way. the shop calls 911 and this idiot endup having the fire/police/paramedic department come out to pick his carcas off the floor. as the cop was going tru his bag they found a bottle haft full of hand sanitizer and rubbung achool.
by my figure this clown probably cost the tax payers 10g there was 16 emergency people there. i asked one of the fire guys does this happen often?
he said yes they are picking up this idiot at least once a week.
at the end of the day his life could have been saved by a condom,pulling out,or an abortion.
 
ItIsWhatItIs said:
HUH? Are you for real? Not all guys stick around? Do you know how much it costs for Daycare and other expenses for raising a kid?.
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yes and if any guy is found to have more then one kid that he is not suporting he should forced to have a vasectomy.i was renting a room to a guy that had 3 kids by 3 different baby mommas. i ask him you have a hard time paying me rent why are you making so many babys? he say that is what wellfare is for.i tru his as out of my house.
no i have no idea how much day care cost.but if you cant aford to put one kid tru day care you should not be bring in any more kids into the world.
 
freedomfighter said:
yes and if any guy is found to have more then one kid that he is not suporting he should forced to have a vasectomy.i was renting a room to a guy that had 3 kids by 3 different baby mommas. i ask him you have a hard time paying me rent why are you making so many babys? he say that is what wellfare is for.i tru his as out of my house.
no i have no idea how much day care cost.but if you cant aford to put one kid tru day care you should not be bring in any more kids into the world.
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That is why canada has to rely on thankless immigrants to grow its population. Perhaps Canada should look in the mirror and see what the world really sees Canada as: A poaching whore. Canada refuses to create social constructs to address its own population needs so it lures Doctors and others to Canada from Countries that could use these people. On the flip side, Canada also brings in people to compete for jobs against domestic Canadians in turn repressing wages and driving up living costs. A Country's Society is responsible for it's own growth and that does not include being a world whore at the expense of its domestic population where everyone gets a turn. The way Canada is with it's population growth is no better than the tenant you threw out because Canada is that tenant you threw out, think about it.
 
The US did a study and found that they had generations of families growing up on welfare so they changed the system. Now you have 5 years of eligibility during your life. I love this idea. If you have a bad situation in your life, it gives you a net to catch you, but you damn well better get going again because the help runs out. If the time is limited, the monthly allowance could increase greatly (to something more reasonable) for the same cost to the taxpayer.
 
GreyGhost said:
The US did a study and found that they had generations of families growing up on welfare so they changed the system. Now you have 5 years of eligibility during your life. I love this idea. If you have a bad situation in your life, it gives you a net to catch you, but you damn well better get going again because the help runs out. If the time is limited, the monthly allowance could increase greatly (to something more reasonable) for the same cost to the taxpayer.
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I like this idea :thumbup:
 
GreyGhost said:
The US did a study and found that they had generations of families growing up on welfare so they changed the system. Now you have 5 years of eligibility during your life. I love this idea. If you have a bad situation in your life, it gives you a net to catch you, but you damn well better get going again because the help runs out. If the time is limited, the monthly allowance could increase greatly (to something more reasonable) for the same cost to the taxpayer.
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thats a great idea!
 
Wasn't there discussion about changing the welfare rules to make it so you could get supplementary welfare if you are under employed or if you make under a certain amount? That seems like a great idea to me as I know a lot of the reason a lot of people on welfare don't bother getting jobs is because if they get a job for a week their welfare gets cut off but then they end up fired a week later and it takes 3 weeks for the paperwork to go through again so for the rest of the month they can't even buy food. Or at least that's something they've complained to me about.
 
GreyGhost said:
The US did a study and found that they had generations of families growing up on welfare so they changed the system. Now you have 5 years of eligibility during your life. I love this idea. If you have a bad situation in your life, it gives you a net to catch you, but you damn well better get going again because the help runs out. If the time is limited, the monthly allowance could increase greatly (to something more reasonable) for the same cost to the taxpayer.
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Paul1000RR said:
thats a great idea!
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+1 would solve a lot of issues
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