Everybody takes advantage of tax loopholes to pay less tax. Thats a different topic for a different day.
Increase Ontario welfare rates
- Thread starter Paul1000RR
- Start date
Everybody takes advantage of tax loopholes to pay less tax. Thats a different topic for a different day.
It's a much more serious issue against a much harder target than the poorest of the poor in a province whose economic base got exported to China and Plan B got exported to India. Until both Fed and Provinces start protecting local jobs instead of just giving blowjobs to CEO's of large multinationals, things are just gonna continue getting worse.
stormcat
Well-known member
I always love these highly simplified retorts to social assistance problems. Here are some reasons why able-bodied people may not be working:
1. Unemployment. I.e., They're actually unable to find a job they qualify for, or are educated for.
2. Single parenthood of a young child or children. Do you know how much daycare costs?! Good luck working to pay household bills and daycare on a single income.
3. Healthcare benefits. Lack of healthcare benefits have become the norm with jobs these days. So even if a person who requires expensive medications every month were working, they may not be able to afford their medications and monthly household bills. Being on assistance pays for meds and basic housing costs. E.g., when my friend, Greg, was sick with HIV/AIDS the government refused to help him with medication costs (upwards of $1500+ month) unless he quit his job. How convoluted is that logic?
4. Mental illness. The individual may actually be suffering from a mental illness that keeps them from being able to maintain a job. Just because that person looks 'able-bodied' doesn't mean they're emotionally, or psychologically capable.
5. Terminal or episodic illness. E.g., I have MS. I am 'able-bodied' most of the time. I actually qualify for disability, but I have never applied. So while most of the time I am very capable of doing the work I do, I have had to walk away from a research position because an MS relapse made me too sick to continue. How many employers are willing to take on a person who might have to occasionally take a month or more off? Not too damn many. But no, I am NOT collecting SA in case you're wondering.
There ya go. Just a few reasons why able-bodied individuals may be collecting social assistance.
So its better to sit on welfare than to get a job that you're overqualified for?
Mental illness and other disability is a whole different thing all together. Theres 500,000 people in this province who fall into this category, however we're talking about the other close to 500,000 who are ABLE BODIED.
I would like to see a little more right-wing solution to welfare, and not really Harris style either.
Have two tiers, higher pay for those that will submit to drugs testing. You can opt out but you will only get 2/3 the amount. Now there is a benefit for staying clean but we are also not kicking the druggies entirely to the streets.
For everyone, have most of the money come on a pre-paid card that cannot be used to buy smokes or booze and cannot be used at those payday loan places. Also give them $40 in cash that they can use however they want. This way we limit how much they can easily blow on drugs/booze/etc.
Yes there are ways to still abuse the system by getting around some of the above (like trading food for drugs) but it will make it more of a PITA to do so. Both of the above should not really have a large negative impact on those who honestly need it as a stop gap until they find a new job or those that cannot work legitimately.
Have two tiers, higher pay for those that will submit to drugs testing. You can opt out but you will only get 2/3 the amount. Now there is a benefit for staying clean but we are also not kicking the druggies entirely to the streets.
For everyone, have most of the money come on a pre-paid card that cannot be used to buy smokes or booze and cannot be used at those payday loan places. Also give them $40 in cash that they can use however they want. This way we limit how much they can easily blow on drugs/booze/etc.
Yes there are ways to still abuse the system by getting around some of the above (like trading food for drugs) but it will make it more of a PITA to do so. Both of the above should not really have a large negative impact on those who honestly need it as a stop gap until they find a new job or those that cannot work legitimately.
stormcat
Well-known member
Trust me, places like Tim Horton's and McDonald's will not hire people who are overqualified because they present a flight risk. Time and money spent training them, and they know that person won't be there very long. They would rather hire people who they know will stick around longer, and who can blame them for that?
My own headhunter asked me to "downplay" my education on my résume because she feared it would scare potential clients off.
EDIT: Btw, you seem to have stopped reading when I offered more examples of ABLE-BODIED people who are stuck on SA other than those with a mental illness.
He didn't stop reading.. He just couldn't find any arguments against your other statements so he's only attacking the statements he is able of attacking
That's such an easy fix, then. Don't look overqualified on paper. If you need the job, then you do what it takes to get it. And if it's about fairness, you can at least give them your 2 weeks before you leave. Places like Timmies or McDicks don't require much of a skillset/hires are a dime a dozen. Sure, it's an inconvenience for them to re-hire, but when you're trying to make ends meet, that should probably be the last thing on your mind.
You forgot to mention lottery tickets, and casinos.
You also forgot to stop and think how the govt thinks. If the 'less fortunate' don't buy smokes, booze and lottery tickets - just exactly how is the govt going to recover the money they're handing out? Most of the cost of booze and smokes is TAX, and a considerable chunk of lottery and casino money goes right back to the govt. Think about it.
On a humourous note: I know of a someone who claimed to be "less fortunate" and needed welfare.
This moron was delivering pizza on the side.
Well - one day, (unknown to him), he had to make a delivery to his case worker. Long story short - he can NEVER make a benefit claim with any govt agency for life.............everyone that knew him got a good LOL over that.
I read it and i agree, those people are in need. Its the other 3 points i had a problem with.
He didn't stop reading.. He just couldn't find any arguments against your other statements so he's only attacking the statements he is able of attacking
Attacking? I didnt realize this was a war, thought it was a conversation. Read above, the guy made some valid points. Im not like majority of people where i only see one side or another. Im aware that people who dont necessarily agree with me still do bring up some valid points.
Im also not afraid to admit it when im wrong, unlike 99% of this forum.
food for thought:
Welfare is a much cheaper option than prison (alluding to the fact that the safety net within the framework is actually beneficial to the system).
Welfare is a much cheaper option than prison (alluding to the fact that the safety net within the framework is actually beneficial to the system).
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/18/prison-costs-soar-86-in-past-five-years/
lol that's some pretty funny ****! this is another angle that people haven't thought about. $600 a month is the base rate for able bodied individuals. And a lot of them take advantage of the system in the exact way you describe. Take 600 clean from the government, get full benefits, and find something on the side for CASH.
$600 CASH is like $850 before tax at work. At minimum wage thats 2 weeks of work.
No doubt. Better question is why does it cost so much? People in prison should be forced to work if they want a meal. Why is it constantly that hard working people in society have to string up the bottom of the barrel through their work?
reminds me of the old joke:
Just in case you ever got these two mixed up, This should make things a bit more clear....
IN PRISON you spend the majority of your time in an 8X10 cell.
AT WORK you spend the majority of your time in a 6X8 cubicle.
IN PRISON you get three meals a day.
AT WORK you only get a break for one meal and you pay for it.
IN PRISON you get time off for good behavior.
AT WORK you get more work for good behavior.
IN PRISON the guard locks and unlocks all the doors for you.
AT WORK you must carry around a security card and open all the doors for yourself.
IN PRISON you can watch TV and play games.
AT WORK you get fired for watching TV and playing games.
IN PRISON you get your own toilet.
AT WORK you have to share with some idiot who pees on the toilet.
IN PRISON they allow your family and friends to visit.
AT WORK you can't speak to your family.
IN PRISON all expenses are paid by the taxpayers with no work required.
AT WORK you get to pay all the expenses to go to work and then they deduct taxes from your salary to pay for prisoners.
IN PRISON you spend most of your life inside bars wanting to get out.
AT WORK you spend most of your time wanting to get out and go inside bars.
IN PRISON you must deal with sadistic wardens.
AT WORK they are called managers
IN PRISON you spend the majority of your time in an 8X10 cell.
AT WORK you spend the majority of your time in a 6X8 cubicle.
IN PRISON you get three meals a day.
AT WORK you only get a break for one meal and you pay for it.
IN PRISON you get time off for good behavior.
AT WORK you get more work for good behavior.
IN PRISON the guard locks and unlocks all the doors for you.
AT WORK you must carry around a security card and open all the doors for yourself.
IN PRISON you can watch TV and play games.
AT WORK you get fired for watching TV and playing games.
IN PRISON you get your own toilet.
AT WORK you have to share with some idiot who pees on the toilet.
IN PRISON they allow your family and friends to visit.
AT WORK you can't speak to your family.
IN PRISON all expenses are paid by the taxpayers with no work required.
AT WORK you get to pay all the expenses to go to work and then they deduct taxes from your salary to pay for prisoners.
IN PRISON you spend most of your life inside bars wanting to get out.
AT WORK you spend most of your time wanting to get out and go inside bars.
IN PRISON you must deal with sadistic wardens.
AT WORK they are called managers
That's because we have laws against slavery
The reason some take on side-jobs is that not everyone gets into community housing and tryto live on $600 at market rates.
slavery ? lol
$109,699 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year in canada.
so welfare when you're out on the street paid by the taxpayer, then when you get caught for a crime 109,699 paid for by the taxpayer so that you can have shelter, clothing, a bed, tv, internet and 3 meals a day?
oh, but we cant make them work, that would be against the rules. do you see how ridiculous this is?
so why not get another job instead of milking the system?
no matter how you slice it, if you are ABLE BODIED and no other good excuse to be on welfare and you're taking it you're scamming the system. jobs are out there.
Using prisoners for slave labor raises all sorts of issues in addition to the morality of slavery. Our system is built on the principle of reforming the criminals while keeping them away from the society. It costs money but it also saves money through lower incarceration rates and less recidivism. These safety nets and humane treatment of offenders are the reasons why Canada is not a jungle like the US for example.
The other problem is that if prisoners become a source of income, they may become profitable enough for the government to start manufacturing criminals. It's been done in the past and it can be done again if we give them the chance.
And even if my arguments did not hold water, slavery's wrong
