Increase Ontario welfare rates

Paul1000RR

Paul1000RR

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Heard this on the radio tonight and found it interesting. This report suggest "An immediate $100 increase in the monthly welfare rate for adults would be a good start".

Then they go on to say that about 500,000 people in ontario are on social assistance because of disability. I know there is probably a good amount who are full of it but i can live with that. What i found shocking was that another roughly 500,000 were on welfare and were ABLE-BODIED individuals. My first question is WTF are people who are capable of working doing on welfare, and my second is do they deserve an increase?
At a time when teachers just had their pay frozen and most people haven't seen an increase in their pay in ages, do people who contribute nothing to society deserve an increase?





http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2012/10/20121024-184007.html
 
It may well be that these able-bodied people are unemployed or underemployed and they do not have the skills or education to get a job that pays them a decent wage. On the other hand, suggesting that we add almost 800,000 million dollars to what is now paid out of our pockets seems to be a non-starter from the get go. What are these people thinking? The money, if it is not borrowed, would have to come out of the taxes collected.

I find it shocking that one million people are on welfare. The chances that they will get out of poverty are slim.

Paul1000RR said:
Heard this on the radio tonight and found it interesting. This report suggest "An immediate $100 increase in the monthly welfare rate for adults would be a good start".

Then they go on to say that about 500,000 people in ontario are on social assistance because of disability. I know there is probably a good amount who are full of it but i can live with that. What i found shocking was that another roughly 500,000 were on welfare and were ABLE-BODIED individuals. My first question is WTF are people who are capable of working doing on welfare, and my second is do they deserve an increase?
At a time when teachers just had their pay frozen and most people haven't seen an increase in their pay in ages, do people who contribute nothing to society deserve an increase?





http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2012/10/20121024-184007.html
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Drug and alcohol tests.

You fail. You don't get paid.

If you're able bodied then you should be working.
 
When I see known people on welfare peddling down the street on their bikes with a cig in their mouth and a 24 on the handle bars, I assume they have enough money from sitting around for smokes and booze, they don't need more.

Have someone in my family on welfare. Always have money for pot!
 
That's the social safety net we Canadians have determined is needed. Like it or not, we built it into the framework of our society
 
The psycho people I lived with for a few months before fleeing for my life were also on welfare. They said they were getting disability. I saw them mow the lawn of the farm I lived on, and it was a crap ton of grass. All they did was play on facebook 24/7 and drink beer. There is no reason they should be getting any money to begin with, they're just lazy
 
I'm loving this: this topic is way to touchy lol I'm spelling drama quick time and the ticking before someone drops the bomb.
 
The official unemployment rate is just under 8% so it doesn't surprise me that there's a million people who can't make a living. And that 8% is SICKENINGLY doctored figure. If you work 5 hours a week, you're officially employed but won't make enough for food, not to mention shelter, clothing, utilities and transport. A couple of years ago when I was between jobs, I went to a job assistance program and they wouldn't offer me any simply because I was still working 6-7hrs a week and I wasn't a statistic. Their purpose in life is to keep that figure to a minimum, not to actually assist people with making a living wage. You can be able and willing but still unemployed if there simply aren't jobs to be had.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
The official unemployment rate is just under 8% so it doesn't surprise me that there's a million people who can't make a living. And that 8% is SICKENINGLY doctored figure. If you work 5 hours a week, you're officially employed but won't make enough for food, not to mention shelter, clothing, utilities and transport. A couple of years ago when I was between jobs, I went to a job assistance program and they wouldn't offer me any simply because I was still working 6-7hrs a week and I wasn't a statistic. Their purpose in life is to keep that figure to a minimum, not to actually assist people with making a living wage. You can be able and willing but still unemployed if there simply aren't jobs to be had.
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Which brings me to the second part of the problem that i see with all of this. Everywhere i go i see "help wanted" signs, malls, tim hortons, gas stations. I open up the paper and there are pages of jobs available. Go on kijiji or craigslist and once again its full of jobs. Call up any agency in my area and as long as you have steel toe boots and 2 feet and arms they'll get you working tomorrow.

So how is it that people cant find work when there's plenty available?
 
suzuki2000 said:
That's the social safety net we Canadians have determined is needed. Like it or not, we built it into the framework of our society
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I guess we can end the thread now then. Clearly a message board isn't for discussing things lol

BAUSS said:
I'm loving this: this topic is way to touchy lol I'm spelling drama quick time and the ticking before someone drops the bomb.
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What the hell you talking about?
 
Paul1000RR said:
Which brings me to the second part of the problem that i see with all of this. Everywhere i go i see "help wanted" signs, malls, tim hortons, gas stations. I open up the paper and there are pages of jobs available. Go on kijiji or craigslist and once again its full of jobs. Call up any agency in my area and as long as you have steel toe boots and 2 feet and arms they'll get you working tomorrow.

So how is it that people cant find work when there's plenty available?
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Because getting paid to do nothing is better than getting paid not much more to work hard.
 
lol I know some people who collect welfare, their day consists of smoking weed and video games. all 7 days of the week. They're just as fit and healthy as I.
 
They say that a good measure of a civilization is how a society treats its weakest members. The problem is that a decent portion of those members aren't as weak as they claim to be.

imo, it's the catch 22 of having a social safety net. We put something like this in place for the people who need it, even if it means that it'll get abused by the people who don't. This is exactly what happens with government co-ops, OSAP and numerous other social programs that we have in place.

I think that instead of increasing welfare payments, there should be an incentive to move these people out of the city. It's a flawed system, but I see no way to fix it.
 
It's easy to judge and make blanket statements if you've never been poor. And when I say poor I mean bum broke. It happens for any number of reasons that a comfortably employed person can't fathom until it happens to them, god forbid.

For example, my family was on welfare for a couple of years when I was a kid. My father had split leaving my mother to raise 3 children on her own. I have no desire to get into detail but suffice it to say that my mother had no marketable work experience and was left to deal with the trauma alone. Social assistance was a god send. It gave my mom the opportunity to find her footing instead of spiraling into perpetual poverty working a dead end, min wage job. She put herself through school while taking care of us and now, many years later, everyone in the family is employed, self sufficient and prepared to have each others' backs during harder times.

I know there are crap loads of people who abuse the system and that's unfortunate. But like suzuki said, society decided that the benefits are worth the risk of some bad apples.
 
AF4iK, that is exactly why I would never vote against welfare. It does need to change and I say if you accept welfare, then you accept the government into your life 100%. By that I mean, drug tests, random home inspections to search for booze, cigs, and drugs. If you need food, clothes and shelter than we'll help you out, but we should NOT be paying for your recreation.
 
AF4iK said:
It's easy to judge and make blanket statements if you've never been poor. And when I say poor I mean bum broke. It happens for any number of reasons that a comfortably employed person can't fathom until it happens to them, god forbid.

For example, my family was on welfare for a couple of years when I was a kid. My father had split leaving my mother to raise 3 children on her own. I have no desire to get into detail but suffice it to say that my mother had no marketable work experience and was left to deal with the trauma alone. Social assistance was a god send. It gave my mom the opportunity to find her footing instead of spiraling into perpetual poverty working a dead end, min wage job. She put herself through school while taking care of us and now, many years later, everyone in the family is employed, self sufficient and prepared to have each others' backs during harder times.

I know there are crap loads of people who abuse the system and that's unfortunate. But like suzuki said, society decided that the benefits are worth the risk of some bad apples.
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Nobody here is saying welfare makes someone a bad person. There are people that deserve it and use it for it's purpose (like your mom).
However, there is a significant amount of those that are receiving a part of YOUR pay check and are using that money to sit at home, drink, play video games and smoke their dope for their "bad back" or whatever excuse they have... But then again, here I am also receiving a part of your pay check so I can't really say too much lol.
 
There are a lot of legitimate welfare cases, and a shipload of scammers.

But if we hired a real team of investigators to chase down the scammers, they would get great provincial salaries and benefit plans and a killer pension
Its a lot cheaper to ignore the scammers, it actually costs less.
 
crankcall said:
There are a lot of legitimate welfare cases, and a shipload of scammers.

But if we hired a real team of investigators to chase down the scammers, they would get great provincial salaries and benefit plans and a killer pension
Its a lot cheaper to ignore the scammers, it actually costs less.
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And that shipload is a lot smaller than the corporate propaganda agencies like Quebecor would have you believe. Even if you took all the money that the scammers are receiving, it wouldn't even begin to make a dent in the amount that disappears from the public coffers through the use of corporate tax shelters and questionable accounting practices. For every bum you see out there smoking up and playing video games (and I've seen plenty of those volunteering in a community center), you have 20 good family people just unable to get work. By the way, I've seen wanted ads in countries with 30% official unemployment.

Being fresh off the boat, my family was on welfare for 6 months as a way to get up and running once the money we brought in ran out. Those payments could go a lot further than they can now and I really feel sorry for people forced to try to survive on welfare. Since then, the welfare has been repaid tens of times over just in income taxes.

If you guys want a real target, attack those companies whose entire accounting departments have quarterly meetings in Barbados and other tax shelters (did some contract work for one and got out as soon as possible). They are costing us a lot more than the poorest of the poor.
 
AF4iK said:
It's easy to judge and make blanket statements if you've never been poor. And when I say poor I mean bum broke. It happens for any number of reasons that a comfortably employed person can't fathom until it happens to them, god forbid.

For example, my family was on welfare for a couple of years when I was a kid. My father had split leaving my mother to raise 3 children on her own. I have no desire to get into detail but suffice it to say that my mother had no marketable work experience and was left to deal with the trauma alone. Social assistance was a god send. It gave my mom the opportunity to find her footing instead of spiraling into perpetual poverty working a dead end, min wage job. She put herself through school while taking care of us and now, many years later, everyone in the family is employed, self sufficient and prepared to have each others' backs during harder times.

I know there are crap loads of people who abuse the system and that's unfortunate. But like suzuki said, society decided that the benefits are worth the risk of some bad apples.
Click to expand...

I don't know if this is directed at me but i'll guess it is since i started the thread. I've been there myself, not on welfare, but dirt poor.

Im not attacking the legit cases, but it seems to me like majority of them aren't. Majority of people you talk to will tell you about people who abuse the system just like in this thread. I too know people who are on welfare and they don't need it. 3 people all 19-22 years old, healthy, able to work but instead decided to drop out of school, get subsidized housing, welfare and sell drugs.
Now these people get a raise while my taxes go up lol how the **** does that work?

On top of that they get prescription drugs, dentist and eye doctor benefits.

If i contribute 30,000 a year in taxes why don't i get atleast the same benefits as the people who TAKE out money from the system if my work doesnt provide it? seems backwards to me.

Nothing is for free, somebody has to pay for everything. And if one group is paying and getting nothing, while another is doing nothing and getting everything it seems twisted to me.

And i don't agree with the attitude that we must deal with it, i think something should be done about the people who are abusing it. If you dont have a legit reason to be on it i think you should get a 3 month warning so you can get a job and then you're cut off.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
And that shipload is a lot smaller than the corporate propaganda agencies like Quebecor would have you believe. Even if you took all the money that the scammers are receiving, it wouldn't even begin to make a dent in the amount that disappears from the public coffers through the use of corporate tax shelters and questionable accounting practices. For every bum you see out there smoking up and playing video games (and I've seen plenty of those volunteering in a community center), you have 20 good family people just unable to get work. By the way, I've seen wanted ads in countries with 30% official unemployment.

Being fresh off the boat, my family was on welfare for 6 months as a way to get up and running once the money we brought in ran out. Those payments could go a lot further than they can now and I really feel sorry for people forced to try to survive on welfare. Since then, the welfare has been repaid tens of times over just in income taxes.

If you guys want a real target, attack those companies whose entire accounting departments have quarterly meetings in Barbados and other tax shelters (did some contract work for one and got out as soon as possible). They are costing us a lot more than the poorest of the poor.
Click to expand...

That speaks volume about the people.
In my home country its the same retarded mentality. Everyone ******* that there is no work meanwhile they wont do physical labour cause its hard or they're too good for it. They'd rather sit in front of a local store and drink booze all day bitching about how the country is ****.
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