Increase Ontario 400-series Highway Speed Limit

Forum Sponsor
油井緋色;1735046 said:
@chrison

Try a different forum, I'm serious.

Please don't stereotype or lump riders up into the majority of users here on GTAM. Some of us are really nice and friendly in real life. It's just the majority that are on here that give all of us a horrible name; as I've stated before, I still have to convince my girl friend that not every rider has an IQ border-lining mental retardation (due to lack of cognitive skills or critical thinking skills), and that we're not "entitled idiots that want to enforce our views on everyone else".

There are forums made for specific bikes, go to ones like gixxer, R6, CB1000, Z1000, just pick sport bikes and massive CC bikes; nobody buys those to ride in slow motion. The majority of users here cry about the government and us becoming a "police state" (which is by far not as bad as the US, so the term shouldn't even be used), but given any chance to fight the "I'm too pussy" syndrome starts coming out.
Click to expand...

Ha ha, you're killing me! That's funny - well, I came here with specific mission (it's really to help EVERYONE) and so far the mission has been accomplished (many bikers have signed up). I've gotten sh^* from other forums as well, trust me... This topic can spark so much unnecessary emotions and at the end of the day vast majority of people wants to go 120, 130++ and wouldn't object to doing it legally. I appreciate your helpful words, but I'm also growing skin - the cause is worth it and politics is brutal.

Are those other forums Ontario-based? I need to reach Ontarians...

dricked said:
I can't be botherd to read all 9 pages of this but one thing I know, if they increase the speed limit to even 110km/h they'll have to redesgin all the on/off ramps.
Click to expand...

No!!!! The speed limit used to be 112km/h on those same roads with MUCH worse cars. Please read www.stop100.ca , that's much quicker than those 9 pages. It was before most of us were born. We've been robbed of a higher limit long ago. We all think it's always been 100km/h....
 
Last edited:
Have you ever heard Einstein's definition of insanity. Because you're starting to embody it.
 
Just got back from 2 weeks of driving in Germany on the Autobahn...it is shocking how slow and bad we drive here in Canada.

Even with a diesel Audi I had (that could easily do 200+) I was really more comfortable doing about 150-180 max. Their roads are no better technology than here and the on and off ramps are usually shorter. They have longer deceleration lanes though.

The stupid thing is that raising the speed limit 20-40 km/hr would have zero affect. We need to learn to drive in the right lane more often and not be so selfish first.
 
YOu should state people from the GTA dont know how to drive on the 400 series highways, I can tell when I am getting close to the GTA, left lane hogs, passing on the right, passing you then slowing down....

Wasted said:
Start that one and you'll get my support. People don't know how to drive on highways to begin with.
Click to expand...
 
gwelfmike said:
YOu should state people from the GTA dont know how to drive on the 400 series highways, I can tell when I am getting close to the GTA, left lane hogs, passing on the right, passing you then slowing down....
Click to expand...

That's fair. When in up north or in other provinces people drive right and pass left. I do a vast majority of my driving in the gta and I guess I forget that not everywhere has such selfish drivers.
 
I think it was around 1978 that we went metric and the speed limits changed. Originally the 400 series highways were 70 mph which converts to 112.6 kph and most drove at 80 mph which converts to 128 kph. Secondary roads were posted 60 mph (96.5). I was driving a 425 c.i.(7.0 litre) Olds with drum brakes! Move on 35 years and the speed limits are way less with vastly superior and safer vehicles. Nobody has mentioned the natural speed that all roads possess which is a combination of engineering design and natural terrain. Ever notice certain areas on roads up north where the traffic slows down? Probably the road narrows or becomes tree-lined or maybe winds through a rock cut with no change in speed limit people drive at a comfortable pace. There will always be knobheads that race or drive too fast for the conditions as there will always be people that drive at less than the posted limit because they are comfotable with that whether they are towing trailers or whatever. I think that if the limit on the 401 was 120 kph that most drivers would still run about 120 not 140 because that wouldn't be a comfortable speed for most drivers. Cops would still be kept busy booking the real speeders and we can concentrate on traffic around us not keeping our eyes peeled for speed traps.
 
I was bored so I read the first 7 pages of this and all I can say is it seems like there are a lot of really bored and opinionated cyberbullies on here.
I have to say I had no opinion on this and after reading all the arguments I agree with Chrison. Everyone else's arguments against his proposal come off as either immature ranting with no solid point or were suggestions of what should be done instead, such as driver training.
I drive 120 on the hwy all the time and after reading this, making it legal seems like a good idea. Then I would not have to worry about getting ticketed for 30 over and loosing demerit points if I happen to do 130 while passing some ****** bag.

Most people likely won't do more than 120-130 mainly because the gas mileage sucks.

The argument of on ramps seems kind of stupid as you won't find people doing 120 in the merge lane.

Having the limit raised to 120 would encourage a natural segregation of slow driver and fast drivers to there designated lanes.

People who are fearful drivers, because they suck at driving and are thus a hazard to the roads, would be more apt to simply avoid the hwy altogether.

Less revenue coming in from speeding tickets? C'mon really? We all know they can find lots of other things to ticket for. Sounds like they just need to take a lesson from the autobhan cops. They could ticket people for driving 80 on the hwy, or for sitting in the passing lane.

Also, wtf not? Maybe the cost of doing it could be a valid argument but that is it.

Who cares how many people like this guys page on facebook? He is obviously passionate about this and came on here to present his opinion in a very coherent well researched way. People attacking him is pretty childish.
 
DJM said:
Too much cost both environmentally and financially. The limit is already 120 km/h in an unofficial way. I would prefer you champion proper lane discipline, eg. drive right, pass left. That would make travel a whole lot less stressful.
Click to expand...
THIS I would support. Too many people sit in the left lane without passing. This needs to stop.

killerkeith said:
Facebook Petitions are completely useless in effecting change. It reeks of laziness. Organize real people to show up in person somewhere and protest where the lawmakers work. I probably still won't care enough to bother, but you are certainly wasting your time here.
Click to expand...
Agreed with the part about the laziness of petitions, although I hardly see a "higher speed limit" campaign as being worthy of a protest. I wouldn't show up to any protest (and many are in the same boat as me), because I'm not wasting a day off of work to protest a speed limit.

To add, being the "slowest" around the world is not a reason for change. There are (perceived?) safety and environmental issues with higher speeds. You need to show that there is no decrease in safety as you go up to 120km/h (or whatever speed you're proposing), and that the environmental impacts are outweighed by the benefits of the higher speed (which, I can't think of any outside my selfish desire to go faster). Once you have all this, bring it to your MPP, talk to you friends, get a support group, and have them bring it to their MPP.

Red695 said:
Most people likely won't do more than 120-130 mainly because the gas mileage sucks.
Click to expand...
Not true. If that was the case, you'd find most people doing 90km/h-100km/h on most major highways.

Red695 said:
The argument of on ramps seems kind of stupid as you won't find people doing 120 in the merge lane.
Click to expand...
If that's the speed that I'm required to do to properly merge, I do it. I HAVE done it on several occasions in my Jeep, so it's possible in almost all vehicles on the road.

Red695 said:
Having the limit raised to 120 would encourage a natural segregation of slow driver and fast drivers to there designated lanes.
Click to expand...
Are you kidding me? What 400-series highway cuts through Germany? Aside from cops enforcing the "keep right except to pass" law, you'll have any "natural segregation", primarily because people are STILL not aware of this law or they are and they just don't care.

Red695 said:
People who are fearful drivers, because they suck at driving and are thus a hazard to the roads, would be more apt to simply avoid the hwy altogether.
Click to expand...
I don't see this happening. I really don't.
 
Last edited:
gwelfmike said:
YOu should state people from the GTA dont know how to drive on the 400 series highways, I can tell when I am getting close to the GTA, left lane hogs, passing on the right, passing you then slowing down....
Click to expand...

I don't think it's GTA thing, I think it's any highway with more than 2 lanes in either direction. People tend to drive in the 2nd lane from the left wherever they are, for some idiotic reason. It just so happens that that idiocy puts them in the right lane when there are only 2 lanes.

Folks from London can confirm, I believe the 401 is 3 lanes each way through there. Do drivers generally stay to the right?
 
Basically your rebuttal is you "don't see this happening" to that I say "well I do see it happening" As for merging at 120, you're telling me if you are merging onto the hwy and the cars in the merge lane are doing 80 you are going to continue to speed up to 120? No. You are not. You merge onto the hwy at the speed of traffic. Unless you are a moron with a death wish.Maybe you don't drive outside of the GTA bubble that much. As for natural segregation, you mean to tell me that a 16 year old girl who is terrified to drive on the hwy, is going to jump right into the fast lane when the speed limit is 120? Nope. You will find her and all the old people and crazy cat lady's over in the right lane because 120 is not something they need or want to do.By the way, you don't need to tell us you are an engineer, its is obvious from your response ;)
 
Red695 said:
Basically your rebuttal is you "don't see this happening" to that I say "well I do see it happening"
Click to expand...
I see plenty of people that are TERRIFIED behind the wheel at highway speeds. I see them doing 70km/h or even 80km/h (at least most of them keep to the far right). If they're not off the 400-series highways already (with an unofficial speed of 120km/h on most highways), I don't see them finding another route once the raised speed limit becomes official.

Red695 said:
As for merging at 120, you're telling me if you are merging onto the hwy and the cars in the merge lane are doing 80 you are going to continue to speed up to 120?
Click to expand...
Re-read what I said... Here, I'll even BOLD it for ya.
EngineerJoe said:
If that's the speed that I'm required to do to properly merge, I do it. I HAVE done it on several occasions in my Jeep, so it's possible in almost all vehicles on the road.
Click to expand...

Red695 said:
No. You are not. You merge onto the hwy at the speed of traffic. Unless you are a moron with a death wish.
Click to expand...
You must be psychic.

Red695 said:
Maybe you don't drive outside of the GTA bubble that much.
Click to expand...
I'm willing to bet that I've driven that Windsor-Toronto-Kingston corridor FAR more than you and most members on this site.

Red695 said:
By the way, you don't need to tell us you are an engineer, its is obvious from your response ;)
Click to expand...
Far to logical eh?
 
It has nothing to do with scared girls or cat ladies. It has to do with a selfish attitude and an sense of entitlement that some drivers have. "I'm doing to speed limit so I can drive in the lane I want. If you don't like it you can go around". That's the problem.
 
Nothing you say has any backing besides the fact it is what you think. Very typical of an engineer. Even your last comments are all ego based. But stay true to form with your omnipotence, probably has worked out great for you thus far ;)Not one decent point against raising the speed limit has been made in this thread.
 
fastar1 said:
I don't think it's GTA thing, I think it's any highway with more than 2 lanes in either direction. People tend to drive in the 2nd lane from the left wherever they are, for some idiotic reason. It just so happens that that idiocy puts them in the right lane when there are only 2 lanes.

Folks from London can confirm, I believe the 401 is 3 lanes each way through there. Do drivers generally stay to the right?
Click to expand...

I drive 1000km/week going to and from London and can confirm it's a 3 lane highway thing, more pronounced the closer you get to the GTA. You don't see a lot of lane hogs on the 403 past Hamilton to Woodstock.

I will always blame it on 3 things: Poor/Cheap testing standards, no enforcement, and good old Canadian politeness because anywhere else in the world you'd be getting tail-gaited, horn blared and swiped into a concrete barrier for bad etiquette.
 
I am just saying he won my vote, I'm not interested in convincing anyone either way. The amount of backlash on this thread against chrisons proposal I would think would and should be warranted by a submission of a few decent arguments in favour of keeping the speed limits as they are.
 
The speed limit should be kept as it is because there is nothing to gain by changing it.
 
Red695 said:
Nothing you say has any backing besides the fact it is what you think.
Click to expand...
And that's different from your post, how? I've at least provided examples and a logical conclusion to those examples based on my experience behind the wheel.

"Very typical of an engineer" you say, and perhaps you're right. After all, the Canadian Courts recognize the opinion of a Registered Professional Engineer that is discussing a topic which he is considered an expert (I claim neither that I'm a registered professional nor an expert in this field). Do me a favour and put your bias against engineers aside for the duration of our debate... or not at all for all I care. If your only counter argument is a shot against my profession, there's no point in me responding.

Environmental. If memory serves me correctly, the speed limit was dropped during the fuel crisis as a way of reducing fuel consumption. This makes sense as the power required to overcome drag is a function of the CUBE of the velocity. That means that going from 70mph to 62mph actually decreased the power required to travel the speed limit by ~30% (1-(62/70)^3). But, going UP from 62mph to 70mph would mean an increase in power requirements of about 44% (70/62)^3. Obviously that doesn't linearly correlate to fuel consumption since there are MANY more factors (e.g. gearing, BSFC) to take into consideration. With most US states in the 65mph - 80mph range, it makes sense that auto manufacturers are gearing their vehicles for optimal fuel consumption at those speeds, so perhaps moving up to 70 mph, we won't see drastic increase in fuel consumption... But however you look at it, there will be an increase in fuel consumption and emissions. So from an environmental standpoint, there's a good reason NOT to raise the speed limit.

Safety. Anyone care to share any studies about the states that went from 55mph to 70+ mph? I'm guessing safety did not decrease (and if it did, not by much). Unless safety increased with the increase of speed, I don't see the speed argument being a supporting argument either way. For the politicians to consider the change, the safety increase would have to be somewhat substantial.

Cost. Yes, there's a cost involved with increasing the speed limit. If there's no real benefit to that cost, it's wasted money. So what is the benefit? I get to work sooner? I get to my destination sooner?

I'm not opposed to higher speed limits. But I'll be the first to admit that my desire for raising the limit is purely selfish. For the politicians to consider an increase in speed, there has to be a selling point... What's the selling point? The only arguments presented in favour of increasing the limit was that it's a "more reasonable level" (what makes it more reasonable?) and "so we don't get ticketed at 130km/h" (so, don't drive at 130km/h).
Forum Sponsor
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom