I wonder how long this insanity will last....

[mmmnaked]

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When was the last time house values went down in the GTA?

Bought a house and moved in last october. The same model home as mine sold in 1 day in my street for 70k more than what I bought for, now mine is a corner house, that one wasn't, mine is also a lot bigger than that one.

The same house as mine in a corner lot (bigger lot than mine by a bit) but with about 100k more than mine in upgrades sold in about 1.5 months for 250k more than what I purchased mine for.

if I sold today, after lawyers, commissions and etc, I would pocket about 90k - If I was renting I would not have the opportunity to make that money.

I don't agree or disagree with anyone, each person has its own situation and means to deal with.

Unless you ACTUALLY sell your house, your post is pointless.

The value of your home doesn't matter unless you're selling or borrowing against the equity... That's all there is to it.

 

[lator-illa]

It's not as stupid as it sounds.

Get a better job. Ok, HOW do you get a better job? Take night classes to get a college degree, go to a trade school, do something, come up with a brilliant idea. In some lines of work simply being a hard worker and not being stupid is enough to make progress up the hierarchy chain, in other lines of work you're just a shmuck. There are thousands of other schmucks out there that will do the work for less money if you don't.

I have no idea what your background is.. but if you want it bad enough you'll do what it takes to get it.

Um I get that. Logically, that is really the only way to earn more income(unless you win the lotto).

I just don't like that phrase. Perhaps a little more sensitivity when throwing that around especially not knowing one person's past and experiences.

Your suggestion of night classes or trade school is a great idea. But im sure you realize that takes money? Again I have to reiterate, not everyone is as previleged or as lucky as the next person. What if said person a wife and kids already. Maybe theyre barely making it so perhaps schooling or a change of career just isnt feasible? And who's to say that even after school you will get the job desired? How many university kids do we know graduate only to work near min wage to try and pay off their student loan?

Perhaps it's easy for you guys to say it as all the chips have fallen your way. Some people work their ***** off and still nothing goes right for them.

My point is, saying Make More Money or Get a Better Job is a pretty piss poor, insensitive saying especially to strangers. Guess money cant buy tact.

 

[01cbr]

Um I get that. Logically, that is really the only way to earn more income(unless you win the lotto).

I just don't like that phrase. Perhaps a little more sensitivity when throwing that around especially not knowing one person's past and experiences.

Your suggestion of night classes or trade school is a great idea. But im sure you realize that takes money? Again I have to reiterate, not everyone is as previleged or as lucky as the next person. What if said person a wife and kids already. Maybe theyre barely making it so perhaps schooling or a change of career just isnt feasible? And who's to say that even after school you will get the job desired? How many university kids do we know graduate only to work near min wage to try and pay off their student loan?

Perhaps it's easy for you guys to say it as all the chips have fallen your way. Some people work their ***** off and still nothing goes right for them.

My point is, saying Make More Money or Get a Better Job is a pretty piss poor, insensitive saying especially to strangers. Guess money cant buy tact.

Do you know how much trade school costs?

I cant see how anyone past could have put them in a position where they couldn't get a trade. Poor choices? Maybe.

 

[ZX600]

I really don't think people realize the extent of what they're getting themselves into. I remember working in the mortgage industry when the whole "No Down, 40 Year Amm" was in full effect and what a debacle that was. People getting approved and BARELY affording mortgages that had 40 year amm with zero down! It was ridiculous! Look where we're at now. Back to 25 Year amm only, with 10% down minimum. People just got into all the hype of being homeowners without seriously thinking about the numbers.

Yea we are all idiots and made the most significant purchase of our life without really thinking it over.

Thank god for GTAM, how else would I know about this big mistake we home owners made.

 

[lator-illa]

Yea we are all idiots and made the most significant purchase of our life without really thinking it over.

Thank god for GTAM, how else would I know about this big mistake we home owners made.

Not sure why you thought that was directed to you or anybody on here. I was generally speaking and from what I witnessed from my line of work. I was referring specifically to the 40 year amm zero down period where people got into the hype of home ownership without thinking of the consequences.

No need for condescending tones thanks

 

[ZX600]

Unless you ACTUALLY sell your house, your post is pointless.

The value of your home doesn't matter unless you're selling or borrowing against the equity... That's all there is to it.

I thought we were having an interesting conversation, I didn't know I couldn't post unless I made a ravaging brake through in economy.

Do not understand how my post is pointless? just making a comment I believe is relevant to the conversation - How I moved into a house and a year later it is worth so much more.

Sand inside the Vag?

 

[mmmnaked]

I picked it out as pointless because home owners tend to put a lot of weight behind the 'value' of their property, despite not even considering selling. If the home is your primary dwelling and not an investment, its rise in value is right alongside the rest of the homes in your city. And if you're not selling, what difference does it make how much its worth?

Furthermore, if you ARE selling, you can only make a lateral move unless you plan to get an even bigger mortgage or leave town for cheaper pastures.

You talk about 'if' you sold you'd have $90k cash... Ok, great.. Now what? Move further away?

 

[Paul1000RR]

I did this once just for ***** and giggles. Go to an open house / bidding war suitation and make a spectacle of yourself and how ridiculous a bidding war is and storm out.

It's a fun little thing to do, partly as a game, partly to get the frustration out of your system and partly to shake up both the sellers, agents and other dupe buyers from their hysteria.

Alternatively you can strut around the property pretending to be a baller, just enough to be taken seriously but also enough to hint that you're mocking them, and just walk around talking with your wife / partner about how you're prepared to offer 50% or more over asking price.

Intimidate other viewers by whispering how you will outbid them.

Make a ridiculous farce out of the whole situation.

Consider it a new form of weekend entertainment. Extra bonus challenge....go as far as you can and waste as much of the agents time as possible without actually signing anything.

:lmao: and i thought i had too much free time

I actually feel awesome about my purchase, thank you very much. No where did I say that I was hoping to cash in on my home, or using as an investment vehicle or anything of the sort. It's a place to live, in a city I enjoy, with all the perks of owning a home. I just find it really funny, and so stereotypical that it's the people that DON'T own a home (YOU) that are always throwing around budget numbers, assumptions about crashes, and graphs to try to justify their position. Meanwhile, you've spent the entire thread saying how amazingly awesome your decision is NOT to own a home.

Good for you. I hope it works out for you in your apartment.

Im not saying i made an awesome decision, im simply pointing out whats going on out there. You took offense because it didn't line up with your belief.

Its also in my best interest if houses absolutely skyrocket in the next 25 years, and i hope they do cause I'll be laughing all the way to the bank, but i just don't see it happening.

Sure.

I came back in 2006 with a backpack, as stated, but also with a MSc in Environmental Science and a valid AZ license.
I rented a cheap room in a house for the next 2 years while working a variety of jobs (construction, truck driving, etc) and basically had no life -- drove beaters and junked them if anything broke, never went to bars, don't smoke, don't gamble, and didn't have a vacation for the next 7 years.

In 2008 after saving some coin I bought a condo and stayed there for nearly 2 years. I regretted buying that condo and sold it in late 2009 for only about $15k more than I bought it for, but after commissions, land transfer, lawyers I essentially broke even but had a place to live during that time. At this time I probably had about $20 or $30k saved by just living to work.

Also, in 2007 I met a woman who is even more frugal and harder working than I am. In 2009 she moved in with me and helped me with the expenses while we both continued to save.

In 2009 when the condo sold I started renting again. I found a tiny 1-bedroom upper level of a house that was inclusive for $900 a month. We stayed there a bit less than 2 years and in that time I got a massive promotion into management where I was previously an on-call casual employee which doubled my income. She also got a better job and doubled her income, all the while we were still living cheaper than struggling university students. I went through two cars in that period... a 1998 Saturn SL1 that I bought for $500 and sold for $500 and then a 2004 Toyota Echo that I bought for $4000 and later sold for $3800.

After we had saved nearly $100k, we decided to buy a house. I was tired of maintenance fees so we bought the cheapest freehold semi we could find... actually it is a link detached with only the garage attached. We got it for $350k and it is only around 1100sq feet, $2800 a year in taxes, and had an unfinished basement, crappy floors, old windows, furnace, etc.. Similar houses in our neighbourhood have been selling for just a bit over $400k lately. Condo townhouses are still cheaper than that. The house is big enough for us. I don't even go into some of the rooms as it is. It has a large deck, a decent backyard with a shed I built, a long single car garage, and a workshop in the basement.

I bought it with a prime -0.9% mortage and paid 20% down. Since then I have been paying extra into the mortage every two weeks (biweekly mortgage). I also got another promotion even higher into management and make even more now. My wife also got a promotion and makes 70% of what I make.

Only now, after nearly 8 years of living cheap are we starting to spend money. Only now can I and did I buy a new motorcycle, guns, got into hunting, eat at restaurants, etc. I have also finished my basement myself (and with my plumber/general contractor of a brother).

I don't know about you guys, but my parents didn't have an easy life handed to them. They worked long hours and struggled to get everything they have. They were also lucky and were in the right place at the right time.

Some of you guys seem to believe you can have all the toys and all the fun and still get everything you want. It doesn't work like that and it never has. One thing I find on this forum is that every one is an expert on everything. From bikes to fancy cars to martial arts training to vacation destinations to all kinds of hobbies to expensive dogs, all of you seem to be experts in everything. All of that stuff costs money, and none of that stuff did I participate in while I was saving to buy my first house.

Hey just because you were unable to participate in some of the things people here know about doesn't mean that everyone else doesn't know what they're talking about. There are guys here from every walk of life, and they are able to share their knowledge and experience instantly, that's part of what makes this forum great.

And not everyone is an expert on everything, but like i mentioned above there is a lot of members here and you can make a pretty good bet that no matter the subject there's someone on here who knows about it.
You could chose to learn something from others or ignore them, the choice is yours.

And your post is a bit dishonest when you say you came 8 years ago and now own a house with 40% being paid off, because if your other half leaves you its really 20% paid off :lmao:

I picked it out as pointless because home owners tend to put a lot of weight behind the 'value' of their property, despite not even considering selling. If the home is your primary dwelling and not an investment, its rise in value is right alongside the rest of the homes in your city. And if you're not selling, what difference does it make how much its worth?

Furthermore, if you ARE selling, you can only make a lateral move unless you plan to get an even bigger mortgage or leave town for cheaper pastures.

You talk about 'if' you sold you'd have $90k cash... Ok, great.. Now what? Move further away?

Exactly, that 90k you "made" now gotta give it to the next guy cause he made out like crazy on his house as well!

 

[the bandit]

Just let this ball a keep on rolling baby for a while longer,my home has increased almost 200k in three years and in about 7-8 years gonna sell and collect my early pension pack my bags cars and let's not forget bike and hightailing it out of here to my country of origin where property taxes are $400 a year and gorgeous climate.

On the topic of rent or buy my dad bought his first house in Toronto on major street near spadina and college by the brunswick hospital for 23k in the early 70's. Its now valued at 1.2mill and providing 6k monthly in rent so I guess all his mortgage payments came back and more.If he rented all that time he has got 00000000 worth and 000000 income

 

[Paul1000RR]

Just let this ball a keep on rolling baby for a while longer,my home has increased almost 200k in three years and in about 7-8 years gonna sell and collect my early pension pack my bags cars and let's not forget bike and hightailing it out of here to my country of origin where property taxes are $400 a year and gorgeous climate.

On the topic of rent or buy my dad bought his first house in Toronto on major street near spadina and college by the brunswick hospital for 23k in the early 70's. Its now valued at 1.2mill and providing 6k monthly in rent so I guess all his mortgage payments came back and more.If he rented all that time he has got 00000000 worth and 000000 income

8 years eh?
Only question is whos gonna be able to afford it at an extra 600,000+ on top of what it costs now....cause i don't think wages will increase the same

But hey here's to hoping ccasion5:

BTW your thinking is flawed with the "he'd have nothing" if he took 23k in the 70s, invested it he wouldn't be at zero today...

 

[mmmnaked]

Sure but he would've had to make some savvy investments over the years to be sitting on a 1.2 million asset which generates several grand a month in income today.

 

[Paul1000RR]

Sure but he would've had to make some savvy investments over the years to be sitting on a 1.2 million asset which generates several grand a month in income today.

No doubt but to say he'd have nothing today is simply incorrect.

Another thing i love about these stories is the fact that people forget all about inflation. 23000k in 1970 is equivalent to 130,000+ today...

 

[Renboy]

:lmao: and i thought i had too much free time

I've seen the 'chicks on bikes' thread, you do.

And I think you're numbers are biased. Comparing the costs of a $600k house in Etobicoke to a $280k condo in Mississauga borders irresponsibility. Compare apples to apples here and the numbers are different. If you purchase a $280k condo with 10% down your mortgage payments are maybe $1200/month. Renting that same condo is $1600/month. That's $400/month saved, or spent on property taxes. So in the end you're left with nothing, except the principle that's increasing each month.

Furthermore, as each year passes, your income will increase (historically speaking), so what soaks up 30% of your income today will only soak up 20% in 10 years, and 15% in 20 years leaving you with money to invest (or overspend as is happening today). Whereas rent will increase annually as much as is either legally allowed, or the market can support. If house prices go up, so does rent. In the end, the only way you can lose by purchasing is if the market does indeed crash and you lose the 10% you initially put in.

As far as the bubble bursting, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. Having stricter regulations aside, banks here are terrified of what happened in the States happening here. There's no way the interest rate will increase dramatically in the forseeable future. I have no doubt that it will increase, but the changes will be minor and inline with inflation to prevent lineups at the banks with people dropping off their house keys. The market will stagnate without question, but I don't think it will burst.

What surprises me is the concern with mortgage payments compared to all the other payments made on a monthly basis. I know of people that spend over $300/month just with rogers/bell. Car payments are another in a series of stupid financial decisions. Why buy a beater that you can afford for $3000 when you can rent/lease a BMW for only $500/month? And now that you have a nice car, $60/month basic insurance won't/can't cut it, you need comp/collision and your insurance is $170/month. You can't be seen with an old Nokia phone, rent this iCrap for the next 3 years and it'll only cost you $100/month. Basic cable for $40? How can you possibly watch anything without personal, advertisement filtering, time adjusting, high res pvr for only $120/month. It's not the mortgages that's killing people, it's the gluttonous overspending that's killing people.

 

[the bandit]

8 years eh?
Only question is whos gonna be able to afford it at an extra 600,000+ on top of what it costs now....cause i don't think wages will increase the same

But hey here's to hoping ccasion5:

BTW your thinking is flawed with the "he'd have nothing" if he took 23k in the 70s, invested it he wouldn't be at zero today...

A roof over one's head is a bare necessity and the way I look at it if I was renting the money saved would probably go to cars,,, vacations... bikes and toys. It's like being forced to save money and I emphasize providing a real nice home and neighborhood for my family instead of living in some roach infested... curry stinking... drug dealer filled apartment somewhere.

As far as someone buying my inflated priced home,who cares maybe rent or lease it for some extra income to some fool who thinks he's saving money by doing so.

23 k there was no 23 k to invest he got a mortgage then he paid his house off real fast working 2 jobs raising a family of 8 and now is reaping the benefits collecting probably more then your monthly income busting your chops out there. So all his coin is coming back and then some.

The insanity will continue as I am in the home building industry and have never been out of work in 20 years and see no end in sight things are locked up for the next 3-4 years at least. One builder I deal with builds inventory of 200-300 homes with none of them sold sits on them for 2-3 years and sells them at an extra profit of 150-200k now that's alot of cacow. Even the big boys are getting in on the insanity.

BTW am thinking of purchasing a condo for rental income Interested?

 

[Bruin]

I did look at all the expenses, the wife and I were seriously considering it after that house sold in 1 day, we spoke to an agent and to be honest the only reason we didn't pull the plug is because I only moved here a year ago, I love the house and this is the area i want my kids to grow. Selling here to buy here makes no sense because all the houses will be equity expensive.

Trust me, the amount i gave of 90k is conservative, i low balled it because it sounds so damn ridiculously false.

Now, add the fact the 407 will be expanded (expansion due in 2016)with an exit 2 min from my place and the demand will just continue to go higher.

Look on MLS the area around HWY 7 and 12

Our houses in Brooklyn went up 15% in a year?
how does one find out what they actually sold for?

 

[Bruin]

It's not as stupid as it sounds.

Get a better job. Ok, HOW do you get a better job? Take night classes to get a college degree, go to a trade school, do something, come up with a brilliant idea. In some lines of work simply being a hard worker and not being stupid is enough to make progress up the hierarchy chain, in other lines of work you're just a shmuck. There are thousands of other schmucks out there that will do the work for less money if you don't.

I have no idea what your background is.. but if you want it bad enough you'll do what it takes to get it.

After your layoff did you take courses or any of those things?

 

[caboose56]

After your layoff did you take courses or any of those things?

In the end, no.

I have a good job now and after 5 years of career stagnation I feel like I have a future with my current employer.

I ended up being off work for only 3 weeks including the Christmas break. Before that though I was seriously looking into being an electrician apprentice. Had I not got this new job (which was a bit of a fluke) I think I'd be working as an electrician right now.

 

[Paul1000RR]

A roof over one's head is a bare necessity and the way I look at it if I was renting the money saved would probably go to cars,,, vacations... bikes and toys. It's like being forced to save money and I emphasize providing a real nice home and neighborhood for my family instead of living in some roach infested... curry stinking... drug dealer filled apartment somewhere.

As far as someone buying my inflated priced home,who cares maybe rent or lease it for some extra income to some fool who thinks he's saving money by doing so.

23 k there was no 23 k to invest he got a mortgage then he paid his house off real fast working 2 jobs raising a family of 8 and now is reaping the benefits collecting probably more then your monthly income busting your chops out there. So all his coin is coming back and then some.

The insanity will continue as I am in the home building industry and have never been out of work in 20 years and see no end in sight things are locked up for the next 3-4 years at least. One builder I deal with builds inventory of 200-300 homes with none of them sold sits on them for 2-3 years and sells them at an extra profit of 150-200k now that's alot of cacow. Even the big boys are getting in on the insanity.

BTW am thinking of purchasing a condo for rental income Interested?

What kind of logic is that? If its not for a mortgage then you'll waste it some where else? For people like this i guess a mortgage is the only way to go, paying 30% interest to be forced to "save".

Do you have any idea what i make per month, where i live or what my financial situation is?

Its an excellent time to purchase a condo right now!!! :lmao:
Im not interested however, im happy where i am at the moment, no one would be able to beat my current price of "rent"

 

[Paul1000RR]

A roof over one's head is a bare necessity and the way I look at it if I was renting the money saved would probably go to cars,,, vacations... bikes and toys. It's like being forced to save money and I emphasize providing a real nice home and neighborhood for my family instead of living in some roach infested... curry stinking... drug dealer filled apartment somewhere.

As far as someone buying my inflated priced home,who cares maybe rent or lease it for some extra income to some fool who thinks he's saving money by doing so.

23 k there was no 23 k to invest he got a mortgage then he paid his house off real fast working 2 jobs raising a family of 8 and now is reaping the benefits collecting probably more then your monthly income busting your chops out there. So all his coin is coming back and then some.

The insanity will continue as I am in the home building industry and have never been out of work in 20 years and see no end in sight things are locked up for the next 3-4 years at least. One builder I deal with builds inventory of 200-300 homes with none of them sold sits on them for 2-3 years and sells them at an extra profit of 150-200k now that's alot of cacow. Even the big boys are getting in on the insanity.

BTW am thinking of purchasing a condo for rental income Interested?

I love that line... :lmao:

 

[mmmnaked]

Lives at home haha

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