I wonder how long this insanity will last....

[Paul1000RR]

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When was the last time house values went down in the GTA?

Bought a house and moved in last october. The same model home as mine sold in 1 day in my street for 70k more than what I bought for, now mine is a corner house, that one wasn't, mine is also a lot bigger than that one.

The same house as mine in a corner lot (bigger lot than mine by a bit) but with about 100k more than mine in upgrades sold in about 1.5 months for 250k more than what I purchased mine for.

if I sold today, after lawyers, commissions and etc, I would pocket about 90k - If I was renting I would not have the opportunity to make that money.

I don't agree or disagree with anyone, each person has its own situation and means to deal with.

Did you take into account cmhc? (assuming you needed it) Interest you paid? Property tax? Land transfer tax? Your next land transfer house when you upgrade?

Not saying you did, but most people like to exaggerate or overlook certain expenses to make their numbers look better.

Will home prices really drop of just stagnate for a period of time?

My bet is its going to take a nice ******, like we've never seen before.

House prices won't go down. I believe this because the foreigners keep coming in bunches at a time from the other side.

You might have to wait a long time because our market isn't a local market. It's a global market. The people buying here are people with money from places like Hong Kong and Dubai.

Hong Kong as a crown colony paid no taxes for a hundred years.

Places like Dubai live off oil money and I don't think they pay taxes either.

70%, now i read more like 75% of canadians own a home, an all time high in this country. So what percentage then are these "foreign investors"?

And if a foreign investor has the money to buy a place here i doubt they'll be the ones to get the market into turmoil, after all they'll be a very small percentage. This is a canadian problem, canadians got to this point, and canadians will feel the pain.

It didn't save the US housing market although there is no doubt that a portion, possibly even a significant portion, of our housing market inflation is a result of foreign money pouring in over the past several years.

Let's wait till the rates REALLY go up. Everyone seems to forget that not long ago, like 2006-2007, fixed rates were close to 6%.

The bank already admitted they're afraid of raising rates which would screw a lot of people. They can go up now but haven't.

In the early 1980s interest rates were 19%. Lol!

Oh it's going to happen. Just watch. Like I said, the rates have slowly been creeping up. eg Fixed rates were as low as 2.69% if i'm not mistaken(and these were HISTORIC lows!), but now they're around 3.59% discounted? It's only going to go up from here.

The bank knows we're ****ed and whats about to go down. But they're screwed themselves, raise the rates and you triggered what was a long time coming. Leave it the same or lower it and canadians will just get more and more in debt, making this bubble even worse.

The days of no money down and 40 year mortgages are gone.

 

[Paul1000RR]

So many people here that aren't willing to sacrifice to get what they want.

This is a motorcycle forum, and by the looks of it most of you complaining about housing prices still have your bikes. As you all know, bikes are an expensive hobby -- from the purchase price to the insurance to the parts to the gear, all of it is expensive.

Guess what... if you want to save enough to get a house, you might need to put aside the hobbies for a few years. Less than 8 years ago I moved back to Canada from Indonesia with only a backpack to my name. Now I own a house in Mississauga with about 40% of it paid off.

Seems to me that people just want it all and they want it now.

Sacrifice? This isn't about a small sacrifice, this is 25 years of your life. People are getting hosed, but they all believe that they're making money.

Run some numbers, put a little more thought into it is all im saying.

 

[inreb]

Renting is so simple. I know a nice lady who inherited a pristine house from her aunt. Listed it at 10am, sold by 2pm. $15,000 to real estate fees. Cha-ching. Value of house is now long gone to rent. Nothing to pass on to her daughter. Very slick.

 

[Motorcycle Mike]

Sacrifice? This isn't about a small sacrifice, this is 25 years of your life. People are getting hosed, but they all believe that they're making money.

Run some numbers, put a little more thought into it is all im saying.

The primary reason I have a house is not to make money, it is for a place to live and enjoy. I am paying significantly less owning than I would if I rented a house with the same amenities, and the money I am paying is mostly going to paying down the principal. Of the $1000 a month that I pay, only $200 of that is for interest. I chose to buy said house in the GTA because this is where I found the best job.

Once interest rates are higher than the return on my investments, then I will dump a portion of my investments into the mortgage and bring it down to a point where payments are low again. If values drop significantly, of course I will care, but I will still have a place to live and will just wait it out. I have no intention of moving in the forseeable future.

 

[AGAVE]

So many people here that aren't willing to sacrifice to get what they want.

This is a motorcycle forum, and by the looks of it most of you complaining about housing prices still have your bikes. As you all know, bikes are an expensive hobby -- from the purchase price to the insurance to the parts to the gear, all of it is expensive.

Guess what... if you want to save enough to get a house, you might need to put aside the hobbies for a few years. Less than 8 years ago I moved back to Canada from Indonesia with only a backpack to my name. Now I own a house in Mississauga with about 40% of it paid off.

Seems to me that people just want it all and they want it now.

That's pretty impressive, but i'm curious for more details since you didn't elaborate much.

So you had nothing but a backpack 8 years ago when you came back to Canada.

Did you buy the house the day you came back, or rent?
Did you have a really steady, long term job at the time, mind if we ask approx what you get paid?
Did you do this all by your self? No co-signers, no money from parents, just from what you earned?
How long did it take to save the deposit, and approx how much was that amount please?
The bank financed you no problem?
Do you live alone in this house?
Did you eat rice and beans for 7 years?
Maybe my calculator is broken, but i don't know anyone that paid 40% of their house off in 7 years unless its a wood shack worth 50k.

Please help us poor peons out, we'd like to know your secret.

 

[lator-illa]

Sacrifice? This isn't about a small sacrifice, this is 25 years of your life. People are getting hosed, but they all believe that they're making money.

Run some numbers, put a little more thought into it is all im saying.

I really don't think people realize the extent of what they're getting themselves into. I remember working in the mortgage industry when the whole "No Down, 40 Year Amm" was in full effect and what a debacle that was. People getting approved and BARELY affording mortgages that had 40 year amm with zero down! It was ridiculous! Look where we're at now. Back to 25 Year amm only, with 10% down minimum. People just got into all the hype of being homeowners without seriously thinking about the numbers.

 

[awyala]

I did this once just for ***** and giggles. Go to an open house / bidding war suitation and make a spectacle of yourself and how ridiculous a bidding war is and storm out.

It's a fun little thing to do, partly as a game, partly to get the frustration out of your system and partly to shake up both the sellers, agents and other dupe buyers from their hysteria.

Alternatively you can strut around the property pretending to be a baller, just enough to be taken seriously but also enough to hint that you're mocking them, and just walk around talking with your wife / partner about how you're prepared to offer 50% or more over asking price.

Intimidate other viewers by whispering how you will outbid them.

Make a ridiculous farce out of the whole situation.

Consider it a new form of weekend entertainment. Extra bonus challenge....go as far as you can and waste as much of the agents time as possible without actually signing anything.

 

[estone]

What? :lmao:

Crying and whining? Who is crying and whining about it? We're having a conversation about the biggest purchase most of us will ever make. 25 years of our lives are at stake here, and the best advice you can give is "get creative and its totally doable?"

Your rebuttal of "instead of calculating the 'crazy' cost of owning a home you don't actually own because you live in an apartment, why not put your money where your mouth is and actually get in the game? " is laughable. I put my money where my mouth is and i didn't buy a place. And wont be in the near future, at least not at these delusional prices.

It is attitudes like this that got us to where we are today and will ultimately get the ball rolling. Ironically the same people will then cry and complain the loudest that they got screwed because of the government, bank, economy etc.. It will be everyone's fault but your own.

But hey keep pumping up the idea that people who rent are the dummies, instead of looking at the numbers in this thread. If you deny it and get together with your neighbors and keep reassuring each other you'll feel better about your decision.
Don't debate facts, instead call people names. Yes, that will do it. Don't you feel better already?

I actually feel awesome about my purchase, thank you very much. No where did I say that I was hoping to cash in on my home, or using as an investment vehicle or anything of the sort. It's a place to live, in a city I enjoy, with all the perks of owning a home. I just find it really funny, and so stereotypical that it's the people that DON'T own a home (YOU) that are always throwing around budget numbers, assumptions about crashes, and graphs to try to justify their position. Meanwhile, you've spent the entire thread saying how amazingly awesome your decision is NOT to own a home.

Good for you. I hope it works out for you in your apartment.

 

[estone]

The primary reason I have a house is not to make money, it is for a place to live and enjoy. I am paying significantly less owning than I would if I rented a house with the same amenities, and the money I am paying is mostly going to paying down the principal. Of the $1000 a month that I pay, only $200 of that is for interest. I chose to buy said house in the GTA because this is where I found the best job.

Once interest rates are higher than the return on my investments, then I will dump a portion of my investments into the mortgage and bring it down to a point where payments are low again. If values drop significantly, of course I will care, but I will still have a place to live and will just wait it out. I have no intention of moving in the forseeable future.

This x100

Some sanity in the thread. Otherwise, this thread makes it sound like every home owner in Toronto is a money grubbing, short sighted, penny pinching house poor loser way in over their head.

Another pro tip = MAKE MORE MONEY so your combined income is more than 100K.

 

[Motorcycle Mike]

That's pretty impressive, but i'm curious for more details since you didn't elaborate much.

So you had nothing but a backpack 8 years ago when you came back to Canada.

Did you buy the house the day you came back, or rent?
Did you have a really steady, long term job at the time, mind if we ask approx what you get paid?
Did you do this all by your self? No co-signers, no money from parents, just from what you earned?
How long did it take to save the deposit, and approx how much was that amount please?
The bank financed you no problem?
Do you live alone in this house?
Did you eat rice and beans for 7 years?
Maybe my calculator is broken, but i don't know anyone that paid 40% of their house off in 7 years unless its a wood shack worth 50k.

Please help us poor peons out, we'd like to know your secret.

Sure.

I came back in 2006 with a backpack, as stated, but also with a MSc in Environmental Science and a valid AZ license.
I rented a cheap room in a house for the next 2 years while working a variety of jobs (construction, truck driving, etc) and basically had no life -- drove beaters and junked them if anything broke, never went to bars, don't smoke, don't gamble, and didn't have a vacation for the next 7 years.

In 2008 after saving some coin I bought a condo and stayed there for nearly 2 years. I regretted buying that condo and sold it in late 2009 for only about $15k more than I bought it for, but after commissions, land transfer, lawyers I essentially broke even but had a place to live during that time. At this time I probably had about $20 or $30k saved by just living to work.

Also, in 2007 I met a woman who is even more frugal and harder working than I am. In 2009 she moved in with me and helped me with the expenses while we both continued to save.

In 2009 when the condo sold I started renting again. I found a tiny 1-bedroom upper level of a house that was inclusive for $900 a month. We stayed there a bit less than 2 years and in that time I got a massive promotion into management where I was previously an on-call casual employee which doubled my income. She also got a better job and doubled her income, all the while we were still living cheaper than struggling university students. I went through two cars in that period... a 1998 Saturn SL1 that I bought for $500 and sold for $500 and then a 2004 Toyota Echo that I bought for $4000 and later sold for $3800.

After we had saved nearly $100k, we decided to buy a house. I was tired of maintenance fees so we bought the cheapest freehold semi we could find... actually it is a link detached with only the garage attached. We got it for $350k and it is only around 1100sq feet, $2800 a year in taxes, and had an unfinished basement, crappy floors, old windows, furnace, etc.. Similar houses in our neighbourhood have been selling for just a bit over $400k lately. Condo townhouses are still cheaper than that. The house is big enough for us. I don't even go into some of the rooms as it is. It has a large deck, a decent backyard with a shed I built, a long single car garage, and a workshop in the basement.

I bought it with a prime -0.9% mortage and paid 20% down. Since then I have been paying extra into the mortage every two weeks (biweekly mortgage). I also got another promotion even higher into management and make even more now. My wife also got a promotion and makes 70% of what I make.

Only now, after nearly 8 years of living cheap are we starting to spend money. Only now can I and did I buy a new motorcycle, guns, got into hunting, eat at restaurants, etc. I have also finished my basement myself (and with my plumber/general contractor of a brother).

I don't know about you guys, but my parents didn't have an easy life handed to them. They worked long hours and struggled to get everything they have. They were also lucky and were in the right place at the right time.

Some of you guys seem to believe you can have all the toys and all the fun and still get everything you want. It doesn't work like that and it never has. One thing I find on this forum is that every one is an expert on everything. From bikes to fancy cars to martial arts training to vacation destinations to all kinds of hobbies to expensive dogs, all of you seem to be experts in everything. All of that stuff costs money, and none of that stuff did I participate in while I was saving to buy my first house.

 

[AGAVE]

@Diesel > That is quite impressive, good on ya.
Now tell us where the hell you found a frugal girlfriend! :lol:

 

[Bruin]

.

Some of you guys seem to believe you can have all the toys and all the fun and still get everything you want. It doesn't work like that and it never has. One thing I find on this forum is that every one is an expert on everything. From bikes to fancy cars to martial arts training to vacation destinations to all kinds of hobbies to expensive dogs, all of you seem to be experts in everything. All of that stuff costs money, and none of that stuff did I participate in while I was saving to buy my first house.

Wouldnt that depend on your salary?

 

[lator-illa]

This x100

Another pro tip = MAKE MORE MONEY so your combined income is more than 100K.

This made me laugh. You do realize that the median income in Toronto is way less than this right? And with your pro tip, HOW would one just MAKE MORE MONEY? Stop and think that maybe, just maybe not everyone is as previleged as you.

 

[Bruin]

Those people making the median or less are apartments

 

[01cbr]

This made me laugh. You do realize that the median income in Toronto is way less than this right? And with your pro tip, HOW would one just MAKE MORE MONEY? Stop and think that maybe, just maybe not everyone is as previleged as you.

Get a better job?

 

[lator-illa]

Get a better job?

thanks Captain...

 

[caboose56]

Get a better job?

thanks Captain...

It's not as stupid as it sounds.

Get a better job. Ok, HOW do you get a better job? Take night classes to get a college degree, go to a trade school, do something, come up with a brilliant idea. In some lines of work simply being a hard worker and not being stupid is enough to make progress up the hierarchy chain, in other lines of work you're just a shmuck. There are thousands of other schmucks out there that will do the work for less money if you don't.

I have no idea what your background is.. but if you want it bad enough you'll do what it takes to get it.

 

[ZX600]

You might have to wait a long time because our market isn't a local market. It's a global market. The people buying here are people with money from places like Hong Kong and Dubai.

Hong Kong as a crown colony paid no taxes for a hundred years.

Places like Dubai live off oil money and I don't think they pay taxes either.

That is exactly who bought our condo downtown right by the CN tower, and it cost a good penny.

 

[ZX600]

Did you take into account cmhc? (assuming you needed it) Interest you paid? Property tax? Land transfer tax? Your next land transfer house when you upgrade?

Not saying you did, but most people like to exaggerate or overlook certain expenses to make their numbers look better.
.

I did look at all the expenses, the wife and I were seriously considering it after that house sold in 1 day, we spoke to an agent and to be honest the only reason we didn't pull the plug is because I only moved here a year ago, I love the house and this is the area i want my kids to grow. Selling here to buy here makes no sense because all the houses will be equity expensive.

Trust me, the amount i gave of 90k is conservative, i low balled it because it sounds so damn ridiculously false.

Now, add the fact the 407 will be expanded (expansion due in 2016)with an exit 2 min from my place and the demand will just continue to go higher.

Look on MLS the area around HWY 7 and 12

 

[bakaboy]

+1.

Sure.

I came back in 2006 with a backpack, as stated, but also with a MSc in Environmental Science and a valid AZ license.
I rented a cheap room in a house for the next 2 years while working a variety of jobs (construction, truck driving, etc) and basically had no life -- drove beaters and junked them if anything broke, never went to bars, don't smoke, don't gamble, and didn't have a vacation for the next 7 years.

In 2008 after saving some coin I bought a condo and stayed there for nearly 2 years. I regretted buying that condo and sold it in late 2009 for only about $15k more than I bought it for, but after commissions, land transfer, lawyers I essentially broke even but had a place to live during that time. At this time I probably had about $20 or $30k saved by just living to work.

Also, in 2007 I met a woman who is even more frugal and harder working than I am. In 2009 she moved in with me and helped me with the expenses while we both continued to save.

In 2009 when the condo sold I started renting again. I found a tiny 1-bedroom upper level of a house that was inclusive for $900 a month. We stayed there a bit less than 2 years and in that time I got a massive promotion into management where I was previously an on-call casual employee which doubled my income. She also got a better job and doubled her income, all the while we were still living cheaper than struggling university students. I went through two cars in that period... a 1998 Saturn SL1 that I bought for $500 and sold for $500 and then a 2004 Toyota Echo that I bought for $4000 and later sold for $3800.

After we had saved nearly $100k, we decided to buy a house. I was tired of maintenance fees so we bought the cheapest freehold semi we could find... actually it is a link detached with only the garage attached. We got it for $350k and it is only around 1100sq feet, $2800 a year in taxes, and had an unfinished basement, crappy floors, old windows, furnace, etc.. Similar houses in our neighbourhood have been selling for just a bit over $400k lately. Condo townhouses are still cheaper than that. The house is big enough for us. I don't even go into some of the rooms as it is. It has a large deck, a decent backyard with a shed I built, a long single car garage, and a workshop in the basement.

I bought it with a prime -0.9% mortage and paid 20% down. Since then I have been paying extra into the mortage every two weeks (biweekly mortgage). I also got another promotion even higher into management and make even more now. My wife also got a promotion and makes 70% of what I make.

Only now, after nearly 8 years of living cheap are we starting to spend money. Only now can I and did I buy a new motorcycle, guns, got into hunting, eat at restaurants, etc. I have also finished my basement myself (and with my plumber/general contractor of a brother).

I don't know about you guys, but my parents didn't have an easy life handed to them. They worked long hours and struggled to get everything they have. They were also lucky and were in the right place at the right time.

Some of you guys seem to believe you can have all the toys and all the fun and still get everything you want. It doesn't work like that and it never has. One thing I find on this forum is that every one is an expert on everything. From bikes to fancy cars to martial arts training to vacation destinations to all kinds of hobbies to expensive dogs, all of you seem to be experts in everything. All of that stuff costs money, and none of that stuff did I participate in while I was saving to buy my first house.

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