I Saw You: V.2.0

[alaywa]

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oh how I wish lane slitting were legal, than I'd do it all the time

Today I got busted by some undercover filtering past her at a red light. I accelerated away as a bike would and left her in my dust when the light turned green. Didn't speed, but man she worked real hard to catch up to me 4 lights down the road, irate and waving her badge at me so I would pull over.

She scolded me, called me a maniac, accused me of splitting at speed (which I didn't do), demanded my papers, criticized my M2, asked me how long I had been riding, was shocked when I told her 10 years. Asked me repeatedly if I always drive like that, which I said yes calmly.

She scolded me some more and said she could nail me with driving without out due care and attention, or even stunting, and I rebutted that she couldn't as I was well aware of her aggressive driving trying to catch me (she didn't have flashing lights so I didn't know she was a cop). I told her I had signalled all times, not been speeding and it was in fact legal to pass parked cars and share the lane. Also I didn't chirp my tires, I didn't raise a wheel and I didn't swerve erratically and that she has no grounds to accuse me of stunting.

She repeated several times that the centre line is not a lane, to which I agreed, but that it was indeed allowed to pass and drive on the line to do so, as is the case with any pass and I referred to section 154 of the traffic act which allows one to leave a single lane to make a pass if it is safe to do so, which I did. I left my entire single lane to pass many stationary cars at a red light at 15kph, which is safe, and which I have done for the past 8 years in the UK, which again is accepted as safe in most of the world and something which I have great experience with.

She was still irate and now flustered...went on to tell me she didn't have her papers with her to write me a ticket but that she would be paying me a visit, and she stormed off.

As she got into her undercover cruiser I yelled my last question to her...."how are you going to reach me, will you call or something? Do you want my number?" To which she yelled back "I will find you".


Long story short, if you read the HTA carefully it doesn't mention lane splitting is illegal, it doesn't even mention lane splitting, nor does it mention "filtering".

In fact it allows for lane sharing and passing on the right of another car that is not signalling for a left turn as long as the road has more than 1 lane. In the event of only 1 lane one can only pass (and share a lane in doing so) if the car in front is signalling left.

The HTA also allows for cars to make the decision to share a lane when passing a more vulnerable bicycle!!! (so the more dangerous and protected car gets to decide when and where it can share a lane with a more vulnerable slower vehicle).

So with all that precedence, why is it illegal for a more vulnerable motorcycle to make the decision that it is safe to pass stopped cars at a red light and share the lane with them?

In fact it is not illegal at all!!! It isn't even mentioned!

Cops have 3 times now pulled me over and tried to tell me that driving on the line is illegal, which is not mentioned aaaaaaaaat all in the HTA, in fact if it were illegal then no one could ever change lanes!!!!

And the faster one travels the longer one must drive on the line to change into the next lane. So the length of travel on the line is not a legal point of contention either!

So the way I look at it, I am changing lanes and passing 10 cars at a traffic light, after I determined it is safe to do so, which is my prerogative, and I have not broken any laws in the HTA. In 2 lane traffic I am allowed to pass on the right of cars also (which some other cop tried to argue makes it illegal, but he wasn't too well versed in that clause of multiple lanes).

I look forward to my lovely undercover lady cop visitor coming by to invite me to our court date so we can resolve this without name calling, frantic badge waving and cheap threats. Maybe she can compose herself for our next encounter.

3 times now pulled over, and 3 times now the cops have backed down and issued a "warning" or empty scolding.

But lane splitting at speed.....they may have an easier time nailing you with stunting....they love that "catch all" law. I also had one cop admit to me over the phone when I called traffic enforcement for clarification on the laws regarding lane splitting, that the "driving without out due care and attention law" is what he called an "attitude ticket"!!! As in they dish it out to people they think have a bad attitude when they get pulled over and the cop really doesn't have much on them.

Stay safe out there y'all

PS if you mods wanna bump me to the legal section feel free, but other wise consider this a "I saw you, unusually angry animated lady undercover cop in a black Chevy lumina with no police markings or lights speeding down Dundas West at 9:55 am today trying to catch a bike (me) who was doing nothing wrong, except having apparently passed you while you were stuck at a light in a big gas guzzling slow moving cage"

 

[HamiltonRR]

Spotted a Grey Busa looked like a newer model maybe 2008 or 09, this morning westbound on steeles heading towards mavis.

I was in my car though.

 

[unL33T]

Keep seeing a guy on a red Ducati 900 commuting on the 401. Is that ringing/rattling noise normal? It's kind of annoying to me passing him and I'm not the one on the bike.

 

[C-Note]

i'm pretty sure i saw insert down around ossington inbetween dundas and queen?? same looking triumph... i was in a car, so didn't bother stopping... was that you?

ALSO TO THE APRILLA RIDER (orange Sl 750 Shiver or a Tuono) AROUND ST.CLAIR AND DUFFERIN. You ride with a shorty german helmet. I have the Orange and Black CBR you drive my place all the time, LET'S RIDE BRO

 

[d8ve]

Keep seeing a guy on a red Ducati 900 commuting on the 401. Is that ringing/rattling noise normal?

Yes, it's a dry clutch.

 

[insert]

i'm pretty sure i saw insert down around ossington inbetween dundas and queen?? same looking triumph... i was in a car, so didn't bother stopping... was that you?

nope. wasnt me. i wasnt down around that area in the past few days. but it seems that there is someone else around on a green triumph... i no longer feel unique.

 

[Kri$han]

Today I got busted by some undercover filtering past her at a red light.... I told her I had signalled all times, not been speeding and it was in fact legal to pass parked cars and share the lane. ...
She repeated several times that the centre line is not a lane, to which I agreed, but that it was indeed allowed to pass and drive on the line to do so, as is the case with any pass and I referred to section 154 of the traffic act which allows one to leave a single lane to make a pass if it is safe to do so, which I did. I left my entire single lane to pass many stationary cars at a red light at 15kph, which is safe, and which I have done for the past 8 years in the UK, which again is accepted as safe in most of the world and something which I have great experience with.
...
Long story short, if you read the HTA carefully it doesn't mention lane splitting is illegal, it doesn't even mention lane splitting, nor does it mention "filtering".

In fact it allows for lane sharing and passing on the right of another car that is not signalling for a left turn as long as the road has more than 1 lane. In the event of only 1 lane one can only pass (and share a lane in doing so) if the car in front is signalling left.

The HTA also allows for cars to make the decision to share a lane when passing a more vulnerable bicycle!!! (so the more dangerous and protected car gets to decide when and where it can share a lane with a more vulnerable slower vehicle).

So with all that precedence, why is it illegal for a more vulnerable motorcycle to make the decision that it is safe to pass stopped cars at a red light and share the lane with them?

In fact it is not illegal at all!!! It isn't even mentioned!

Cops have 3 times now pulled me over and tried to tell me that driving on the line is illegal, which is not mentioned aaaaaaaaat all in the HTA, in fact if it were illegal then no one could ever change lanes!!!!

And the faster one travels the longer one must drive on the line to change into the next lane. So the length of travel on the line is not a legal point of contention either!

So the way I look at it, I am changing lanes and passing 10 cars at a traffic light, after I determined it is safe to do so, which is my prerogative, and I have not broken any laws in the HTA. In 2 lane traffic I am allowed to pass on the right of cars also (which some other cop tried to argue makes it illegal, but he wasn't too well versed in that clause of multiple lanes).

Wow. Sounds like you BS'ed your way out of three tickets so far, cuz in reading section 154 of the HTA, it doesn't say anything about "leaving a single lane to make a pass". HTA s.154 makes reference to the "middle" lane of a 3-lane divided highway, and it's accepted uses. It doesn't talk about when/where to change lanes. I agree that it doesn't mention anything about lane filtering, though.

Where highway divided into lanes
154. (1) Where a highway has been divided into clearly marked lanes for traffic,
(a) a vehicle shall be driven as nearly as may be practicable entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until the driver has first ascertained that the movement can be made with safety;
(b) in the case of a highway that is divided into three lanes, a vehicle shall not be driven in the centre lane except when overtaking and passing another vehicle where the roadway is clearly visible and the centre lane is clear of traffic within a reasonable safe distance, or in preparation for a left turn, or where the centre lane is at the time designated for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which the vehicle is proceeding and official signs are erected to indicate the designation;
(c) any lane may be designated for slowly moving traffic, traffic moving in a particular direction or classes or types of vehicles and, despite section 141, where a lane is so designated and official signs indicating the designation are erected, every driver shall obey the instructions on the official signs. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 154 (1).
Exception
(2) Where safety is not jeopardized, clauses (1) (b) and (c) do not apply to road service vehicles and clause (1) (c) does not apply to road-building machines or apparatus while engaged in the construction of a highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 154 (2).

Do you think you'd be able to draw a small image (in paint, for example) to show exactly what you did? From what I'm reading in the HTA under section 154, all it's saying is that the centre lane can be used for passing, if it's clear. It doesn't say anything about passing on the right of other vehicles within the same lane The remainder of section 154 talks about lane designations for high occupancy vehicles (buses).

Soooo whachutalkin' bout, willis?

Just because it's legal and accepted in the UK and many other places int he world, doesn't make it legal here. And for what it's worth; jurisdiction written in the HTA cannot be referred to as "precedence"

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Asian dude crusing up yonge st. last night through Richmond Hill that almost got side swiped by that Ford Exploder with banged up body panels.

I was the bike behind you, close call!

 

[slowbird]

HTA s.154 makes reference to the "middle" lane of a 3-lane divided highway, and it's accepted uses. It doesn't talk about when/where to change lanes. I agree that it doesn't mention anything about lane filtering, though.

3 lane hwy...that meaning a road with a lane going in each direction and a lane in the center not used by either?

 

[Hardwrkr13]

nope. wasnt me. i wasnt down around that area in the past few days. but it seems that there is someone else around on a green triumph... i no longer feel unique.

Was downtown staying at the Royal York a couple weeks ago and saw the same bike (not sure if it was you or not). Nice looking bike though :thumbright:

 

[Kool]

People ridin around Newmarket...hey...so do I.

 

[alaywa]

Wow. Sounds like you BS'ed your way out of three tickets so far, cuz in reading section 154 of the HTA, it doesn't say anything about "leaving a single lane to make a pass". HTA s.154 makes reference to the "middle" lane of a 3-lane divided highway, and it's accepted uses. It doesn't talk about when/where to change lanes. I agree that it doesn't mention anything about lane filtering, though.



Do you think you'd be able to draw a small image (in paint, for example) to show exactly what you did? From what I'm reading in the HTA under section 154, all it's saying is that the centre lane can be used for passing, if it's clear. It doesn't say anything about passing on the right of other vehicles within the same lane The remainder of section 154 talks about lane designations for high occupancy vehicles (buses).

Soooo whachutalkin' bout, willis?

Just because it's legal and accepted in the UK and many other places int he world, doesn't make it legal here. And for what it's worth; jurisdiction written in the HTA cannot be referred to as "precedence"

Krishan:

Originally Posted by HTA Where highway divided into lanes
154. (1) Where a highway has been divided into clearly marked lanes for traffic,
(a) a vehicle shall be driven as nearly as may be practicable entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until the driver has first ascertained that the movement can be made with safety;
(b) in the case of a highway that is divided into three lanes, a vehicle shall not be driven in the centre lane except when overtaking and passing another vehicle where the roadway is clearly visible and the centre lane is clear of traffic within a reasonable safe distance, or in preparation for a left turn, or where the centre lane is at the time designated for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which the vehicle is proceeding and official signs are erected to indicate the designation;
(c) any lane may be designated for slowly moving traffic, traffic moving in a particular direction or classes or types of vehicles and, despite section 141, where a lane is so designated and official signs indicating the designation are erected, every driver shall obey the instructions on the official signs. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 154 (1).
Exception
(2) Where safety is not jeopardized, clauses (1) (b) and (c) do not apply to road service vehicles and clause (1) (c) does not apply to road-building machines or apparatus while engaged in the construction of a highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 154 (2).


Section 154 in general refers to any highway (any road) divided into lanes, i.e. not a single lane. Section b) then further clarifies an instance of 3 lanes. But prior to section b) this clarification is not made, and the section thus far deals with "lanes" plural (i.e. 2 or more)

So in this case sub section a) is a general application to 2 or more lanes with regard to passing.

It states "a vehicle shall be driven as nearly as may be practicable entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until the driver has first ascertained that the movement can be made with safety;"

Meaning that normally, prior to a pass a vehicle shall be as nearly as may be practicable entirely within a single lane. Which means one cannot normally drive in 2 lanes at the same time if it is practicably possible to drive in 1 lane (entirely). But when making a pass this is of course not possible, so in this instance, only when the driver has first ascertained that the movement can be made with safety. Then a driver can leave being entirely in a single lane, to take up 2 lanes, then to move over to another single lane. This is basically stating how to pass and how to ordinarily drive when not in a passing state (i.e. entirely in a single lane where practicable). This clause allows for non practicable situations, as of course there are circumstances where vehicle may take up 2 lanes or share lanes, which go on to be further addressed through out the HTA.

The issue of passing to the right of a vehicle is addressed here (not in section 154):

150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and, (a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;
(b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or
(c) is made on a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 150 (1).



The reason why I now refer to this section is because when I called the traffic enforcement office to ask them to point out the law in which lane splitting was illegal, they first refused and told me if I had managed to find out where the HTA is on the net, then I could find the law myself. I later explained the a cop only gave me a warning and said it was illegal to drive on the line, but that I could not find such a law. The traffic enforcement officer then explained to me that it isnt only that, it was that it was also illegal to pass to the right of a vehicle that wasn't signalling left. So then I figured for sure it was illegal to pass in the slow lane or if I was filtering. Now in the UK passing in the slow lane is called "undertaking" and is in fact illegal, so I figured what this officer had now told me in Ontario was plausible and that there was clear rules here which meant I could not pass between cars, cause obviously 1 set of cars would be to my left!

But then I looked closely at this section he quoted and it is in fact NOT ILLEGAL to "undertake" in Ontario! That one can pass in the slow lane to the right of a vehicle, even if that vehicle is not signalling for a left turn, as long as it is (b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction;

Not even lanes!!! just "sufficient width for 2 or more lines of vehicles"!!!!

As long as I judge that there is room for me and 2 cars (1 on either side), then it is in fact legal to pass to the right of (and in this case between) cars!!!!

In any event, each person may read the HTA slightly differently with respect to lane splitting or filtering because it is not in any way clear or explicit about the act of lane splitting or filtering! In this case it is not illegal and all 3 cops that have stopped me have been unable to argue my contention.

I keep a copy of the relevant clauses in my phone, so if they misquote to me as they have in the past, I am able to rebut them correctly and argue the finer points of the clauses. So far no tickets! I never yell, I never act annoyed, I simply speak to them calmly and state my points with respect and seek their clarification because "I can't seem to find such a law, can you help me find it and understand officer?" As I put it. So far non have been able to explain why and how lane splitting is illegal other than reverting to the issue of safety.

And if you revise the 2 clauses I have referred to you will see "safety" is a judgment call on the part of the driver and is subject to the circumstances of each particular instance. If a judge or officer can be convinced you are mature, respectful, informed, and safe rider, then most of their pre-conceived notions of a SS rider can be put to rest.

When I refer to laws in the UK for example I only do so to point out that the idea of safety is not universal when it comes to filtering, and that most of the world sees it differently. Thus in the absence of a clear ban on lane splitting by name and description in the HTA, and when reverting to judgement calls on safety, one (i.e. a cop) has to take into consideration my notion of safety as well, for I had made a judgment call of some sort to engage in filtering. If I have 8 years of safe experience with lane splitting, and a teenage M2 Canadian SS rider has no experience with it, also gets pulled over, the cop must consider that these 2 separate suspects have different circumstances....for one it was a "safe" action, while for the other with no experience with it, it was "unsafe".

My other issue with an unmarked car chasing down a motorbike is that said unmarked cop car is more dangerous than the biker she was chasing down (me); for I was not speeding while she was to catch me, and even if I was, I am less of a risk to pedestrians (due to my mass and size) at speed, than a speeding 2 ton Chevy Lumina with poorer stopping power and much much more mass and inertia. Cops will argue that it is safe for them to initiate a chase due to their training and general awareness of the laws, blah blah....but then we encounter the matter of relative safety and judgment calls on taking certain actions with one's motorized vehicle. This is where my experience with UK driving situations is relevant and cannot be dismissed out of hand because "this is Ontario" or "this isn't the UK". That arguement would only hold true if there was an explicit law forbidding the act of lane splitting or filtering regardless of safety judgment calls.

Sorry for being so long winded.

 

[alaywa]

Krishan:

By the way you were correct about the use of "precedence". I meant "precedent" which would be correct to apply to the HTA as it is defined below: 


precedent
 /n. ˈprɛsɪdənt; adj. prɪˈsidnt, ˈprɛsɪdənt/ Show Sp[n. pres-i-duhnt; adj. pri-seed-nt, pres-i-duhnt] Show IPA

–noun
1.
Law . a legal decision or form of proceeding serving as an authoritative rule or pattern in future similar or analogous cases.
2.
any act, decision, or case that serves as a guide or justification for subsequent situations.
–adjective pre·ce·dent
3.
preceding; anterior.

What I mean to say is that instances of passing or sharing lanes mentioned in other sections of the HTA are in fact precedent here, as there is no direct applicable law to "lane splitting", so one can only refer to precedent and the "intention of the law" when deciding on the matter of "lane splitting". The intention of the law here is always safety, and when cars in the more protected situation are given the power to decide when and where they can share a lane with a far more vulnerable bicycle, then it only stands to reason a motorcycle should also have the ability to judge his/her own safety when sharing a lane with another vehicle. Why a motorcycle rider is immediately assumed to not be able to judge the safety of passing stopped cars and sharing a lane with them is beyond me, when the HTA allows car drivers to do just that! That is what I meant by precedent.

As for what I did that started all this....it's called "filtering" in the rest of the world as it is distinct from "lane splitting" in the rest of the world also.

"Lane splitting" is defined as driving between 2 lanes occupied by cars at speed (basically all vehicles involved are travelling at normal speeds).

"Filtering" is defined and understood as when a bicycle, motorcycle, scooter, etc, drives between cars stopped at a traffic light, thus "filtering" to the front of the traffic queue.

Police often confuse the terms here and apply "lane splitting" without distinction of speed and relative safety! Additionally the term "lane splitting" isn't even mentioned once in the HTA!!! This is a case of poor knowledge and casual colloquialism on the part of the cops.

In my case, there was a red light with about 6 to 8 cars in the left lane and 2 or 3 cars in the right lane. This was at Dundas St. West near Keele, so it's 2 lanes in either direction. I approached the stopped traffic from behind and dropped my speed to 15kph and proceeded between the cars on the dashed line until I got up to the front of the queue directly between the (unmarked cop) to my left and another car to my right where I stopped to wait for the light change. The cop revved her engine, rocking it back and forth as if to provoke a race or get my attention. Either way I glanced over at her hood noticed I was safe and clear, and the light turned green, so I accelerated (normally for a bike), but of course much more quickly than she could. I quickly got up to the posted speed limit and kept going down the road, and upon approaching the next batch of cars I took to the right lane (sharing and passing parked cars). I got ahead of them and kept going. Mean while the unmarked cop car was driving aggressively and speeding to catch me, and by the time she managed to pass the second batch of cars she was about 200m or more behind me, and gaining fast. I was at the posted limit and she was speeding and had been weaving around the cars we passed.

By the time she reached me at the next set of red lights it was only us at the lights and she frantically and aggressively waved her badge at me and demanded I pull over. When she got out of her car she proceeded to yell at me and accuse me of driving like a maniac, and repeatedly asked if I drove like that all the time....the rest I went through in my previous post.

 

[Nyx13]

Saw a cool 'Smokin Joe's' F3 today going down Main Street in Hamilton (from around Gage Street to Sherman)....nice bike guy! Don't know what year it is but it looks great :thumbup:
We were in the cage today, so you didn't see us *stealth*

 

[ASHES]

android alawyer and lord krishner are acting up like two nerdy kids about to replicate the great mars war.

 

[slogan]

(b) in the case of a highway that is divided into three lanes, a vehicle shall not be driven in the centre lane except when overtaking and passing another vehicle where the roadway is clearly visible and the centre lane is clear of traffic within a reasonable safe distance, or in preparation for a left turn, or where the centre lane is at the time designated for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which the vehicle is proceeding and official signs are erected to indicate the designation;

Does it mean, the highway is devided into three lanes both directions, or three lane one direction?

 

[alaywa]

Does it mean, the highway is devided into three lanes both directions, or three lane one direction?

In this case yes, it does refer to the entire road being divided into 3 lanes (inclussive of all directions). That's why later on in the paragraph it mentions it is ok to drive in the "center" lane if it is clearly marked as being in the same direction as the lane one is proceeding in already. i.e. If there is a 3 lane highway with 1 lane in each direction and a center lane with unspecified direction, one cannoto drive in the center lane (normally), unless passing or making a left turn. If the lane is clearly designated for 1 or the other direction than this restriction doesn't apply.

That's how I read it.

 

[alaywa]

android alawyer and lord krishner are acting up like two nerdy kids about to replicate the great mars war.

"alawyer"...cute

 

[that_new_guy]

Spotted:

Green Kawasaki ZX 7-R 5632A /w matching green gear @ Spadina & Lakeshore Eastbound today 6pm~, got on the gardiner eastbound then exited at Jarvis...

I was in my cage.....at first I was like wtf exit already?...then when I realized the lakeshore exit was backed up I was like "ohhhh" and yeah. lol

I see you like to go in and out of traffic. At least you didn't lane split. Kudos to you

Are you on this forum?

 

[hammakat]

Saw what looked like a black Thruxton traveling east on Fairview in Burlington around 5pm today. Looks and sounds amazing man. I was on the gold Katana traveling west but I don't think you saw me.

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