Dolphin Technologies analyzed 3.22 million car trips between 2018 and 2019 and found that 25 percent of all accidents happened during the first three minutes
That's been reported many times but also is misleading without a divisor (and for some reason that article ignored a very very important one). For many people, they do a ton of short trips. 69% of crashes within 10 miles of home is insignificant if you spend 69% of your time driving within 10 miles of home. I suspect that applies to a lot of people. Obviously with your job/chosen riding style, your percentage of time outside of that circle is very high. I haven't seen a studied that analyzed it like the hurt report and used crashes or injuries per km as that would be a far more useful metric (although I suspect it may also be boring as it shows minimal difference which is why it is not used).
The stats are often woefully incomplete. In Ontario we seem to only get the OPP numbers, what about municipalities and other non-provincially patrolled roads ? Age, years of riding, type of bike involved, weather, road conditions - these can contribute to a clearer understanding of what's really happening.
I have bugged the MCC and MMIC for years to try to get a handle on this, because it clearly influences the cost of insurance but I'm constantly met with the sound of crickets.
I would say @Lightcycle gave a pretty good account.
We only briefly discuss risk/insurance in the context that a 50 year old getting into it/back into it is theoretically as much risk as the 20 year old hopping on for the first time. Insurance companies seem to agree. Also, said 50 year old could very well be 'getting on it' to make up for the 30 years he waited while raising kids and paying down his home.
Just look at @mimico_polak I hear the cops are still looking for this outlaw
Insurance companies don't look at riding experience as much as they do age and overall driving record. Few (if any) in Ontario have actuaries looking at their motorcycle business. They have actuarial data on age/sex/driving record/and type of vehicle from their automobile actuaries -and they share a list of bikes that are arbitrarily classified into categories -- there is no risk calculation done. They can't actually tell you whether an R6 is more dangerous than a TW200., or an M2 19year old is riskier than an M2 55 year old.
Insurers look at the gross of premiums and payouts on their MC portfolios. Then they ask how many Auto & Home customers they would lose if they backed out of the MC business.
As a result, you will see a 55 year old male new rider with clean driving on an M2 will pay 1/2 the cost of a 40 year old in the same position, and 1/3rd the cost of a 30 year old.
As a result, you will see a 55 year old male new rider with clean driving on an M2 will pay 1/2 the cost of a 40 year old in the same position, and 1/3rd the cost of a 30 year old.
Mine comes from a few years experience at Ontario's biggest MC insurer. Had a few lunches with execs that always ended with a few laughs over how the industry does MC and snowmobile insurance.
The 32year old feller I rode with this weekend got his M2 in Apr '22 with his 55 year old stepdad. Step-dad rides a Vulcan 900cc cruiser and pays $1500/year as a new rider, the son rides Boulevard 800cc Cruiser, he paid $3100 last year (his first year) and managed to get his broker down to $2200 this year. Both have car and house insurance, and neither is married or carrying a bad driving record.
My own kid is 28, had his M for 10 years, and pays $1500 for a 650cc ST. 2x what I pay to insure a 660 ADV, and 50% more than the cost of my 1300cc ST.
I can tell you I pay $750 for my DL650, and $950 for my FJR1300. Clean record, married just over 55. Any millennials have similar bikes to compare?
Mine comes from a few years experience at Ontario's biggest MC insurer. Had a few lunches with execs that always ended with a few laughs over how the industry does MC and snowmobile insurance.
The 32year old feller I rode with this weekend got his M2 in Apr '22 with his 55 year old stepdad. Step-dad rides a Vulcan 900cc cruiser and pays $1500/year as a new rider, the son rides Boulevard 800cc Cruiser, he paid $3100 last year (his first year) and managed to get his broker down to $2200 this year. Both have car and house insurance, and neither is married or carrying a bad driving record.
My own kid is 28, had his M for 10 years, and pays $1500 for a 650cc ST. 2x what I pay to insure a 660 ADV, and 50% more than the cost of my 1300cc ST.
I can tell you I pay $750 for my DL650, and $950 for my FJR1300. Clean record, married just over 55. Any millennials have similar bikes to compare?
Rates are irrelevant/stupid.
My policies were up Apr 1. (bike cage house)
FJR was under $900.
I wanted a quote on a new bike.
Long story short. I'm now paying $1200 (same broker, diff ins company) for my bike but my house ins dropped $600. (cage stayed the same).
I am reading through this, and I wondering why you guys are splitting hairs about bunch of stuff when the problem is really lack of good police and training for everybody using the road, plus lack of common sense and civility, plus lots entitlement...
Dolphin Technologies analyzed 3.22 million car trips between 2018 and 2019 and found that 25 percent of all accidents happened during the first three minutes
Soooooooo...bad drivers who think the world revolves around them, the rules don't apply to them, and a lack of police to remind them that theyr'e sadly mistaken and perhaps stop them from hurting themselves, or worse yet, someone else.
That does seem kinda what we're talking about, no?
Soooooooo...bad drivers who think the world revolves around them, the rules don't apply to them, and a lack of police to remind them that theyr'e sadly mistaken and perhaps stop them from hurting themselves, or worse yet, someone else.
That does seem kinda what we're talking about, no?
Yeah, and then it verge to blame the old/blame the squid/blame the cruiser/blame the sport bike with a bunch of statistics.
Would be nice if was possible to do something more concrete. Sincerely I don't know what.
Scarier yet, Obtain your AZ licence for a few K from dodgy rubber-stamp your half assed "training" schools.
But that's another story.
But I do think we need a total revamp on policing in this province. I will say it over and over again - I can and have driven/ridden literally thousands of kilometers a week criss crossing the province and often go days or even weeks without seing police doing active traffic enforcement. Meanwhile there's no shortage of ******** out there taking full advantage of those realities knowing that their chances of getting busted are slim to none.
Scarier yet, Obtain your AZ licence for a few K from dodgy rubber-stamp your half assed "training" schools.
But that's another story.
But I do think we need a total revamp on policing in this province. I will say it over and over again - I can and have driven/ridden literally thousands of kilometers a week criss crossing the province and often go days or even weeks without seing police doing active traffic enforcement. Meanwhile there's no shortage of ******** out there taking full advantage of those realities knowing that their chances of getting busted are slim to none.
My first lic was in the UK, I was shocked at how simple it was to pass the Ontario test. Maybe I shouldn't blame the instructors as they are only teaching to the standards laid out by the ministry which is almost next to nothing. The motorcycling test is no different, many Sunday's i left the lot saying there's no way that rider is ready for the streets, but some how with horseshoes up their butt they managed to pass the test which is the only thing that matters.
I think it starts there, but I do concur with you that the policing could improve but they only seem to be interested in catching speeders.
What puts motorcycle insurance "out-of-sight expensive" is the so-called "accident benefits" premium, most of which I would not be eligible to claim for as I am retired and on pension. But 63% of my annual cost for insurance on 4 old bikes - and I am the only person in the household qualified to ride them - is for this so-called Accident Benefits coverage. That amounts to $1,082.00.
The 1 million $ liability, comprehensive (fire, theft etc.), direct compensation, etc., ( and Not At-Fault collision) totals $639.00 for the 4 bikes.
(They are all plated and insured as "Historic Vehicles".)
When I started riding on a single small (200cc) motorcycle in 1958, insurance on a motorcycle had to be on the "assigned risk" plan as no insurance company in the province would willingly insure a motorcycle. It cost me $32/year for 3rd party coverage only back then - when gasoline was 9 cents per litre.
AFJ
Historic insurance is cheap, but when I looked into it there were riding limits -- the policy only permitted riding to and from shows and relevant events.
Maybe there are different types, I like to ride them. Can you use your antiques as daiy riders under your plan?
Historic insurance is cheap, but when I looked into it there were riding limits -- the policy only permitted riding to and from shows and relevant events.
Maybe there are different types, I like to ride them. Can you use your antiques as daiy riders under your plan?
I did not want historic plates on the mini. Way too many restrictions on where and when you can drive. I assume bikes are similar. Hagerty insurance (and I suspect others) offer affordable policies with reasonable restrictions. Stock vehicles are pretty cheap (<<$1000 for agreed value policy). Modified vehicles are easy to insure for double the premium of stock.
"Flexible usage means Hagerty encourages owners to enjoy their vehicles with leisurely weekend drives, trips to the movies, attending car events and cruises. Leisure use does not mean use for daily driving to and from work or school, routine shopping, etc."
My first lic was in the UK, I was shocked at how simple it was to pass the Ontario test. Maybe I shouldn't blame the instructors as they are only teaching to the standards laid out by the ministry which is almost next to nothing. The motorcycling test is no different, many Sunday's i left the lot saying there's no way that rider is ready for the streets, but some how with horseshoes up their butt they managed to pass the test which is the only thing that matters.
I think it starts there, but I do concur with you that the policing could improve but they only seem to be interested in catching speeders.
I lived, worked, and drove in several European countries. I would say all that process in Europe didn't make better drivers, maybe weeds out a few poor drivers.
Most of my UK and German colleagues scare me when they drive. When I'm on their turf, I usually do the driving.
Historic insurance is cheap, but when I looked into it there were riding limits -- the policy only permitted riding to and from shows and relevant events.
Maybe there are different types, I like to ride them. Can you use your antiques as daiy riders under your plan?
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