How about that | Page 6 | GTAMotorcycle.com

How about that

Roadghost said:
Having a society where people make their own decisions and take risks is not disingenuous. I'm not here to get points either. My feeling is that the correct choice is to get vaccinated, but it's also that those who don't aren't a risk to anyone but themselves. I'm not interested in living in a Bolshevik authoritarian state. I find it alarming that so many people these days don't care about losing their freedom.
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So, what is freedom? Carrying a handgun? Riding at warp speed? Throwing chairs off a 30 story balcony?

As a society we have lots of freedoms, what I don't hear debated much is how much responsibility we hold. As a member of this society I feel some responsibility toward others -- it's not just about me. I don't carry a gun, I don't ride at warp speed (well that might be a lie), and I only throw chairs inside my house. I'm vaccinated.

I'm not worried about the so called slippery slope of losing freedoms at this time. Scientists have a role in guiding decisions, I don't blindly trust any single one of them, but when you have a few zillion all agreeing, and virtually zero dissenting that vaccinations are good for people individually and good for society as a whole - I have a hard time with contrary arguments.

If you're really worried about freedoms, try moving south (you have the freedom to do that). Then you'll have the freedom to opt out of health care, not wear a helmet, carry a gun, and standing your ground in a dispute. Or should we have those freedoms restored in Canada?
 
Your examples are all things that don't physically affect/change your body whether you do them or not.
Forcing the vaccine is not something that can be undone and it does pose a risk. There have been many cases of people developing heart issues and I for one would rather not take that risk. If I were older and in crappier physical shape, I likely would take the vaccine but at this point in my life I have a good chance against the now "cold" and would rather take my chance at possibly getting it then signing up for something that also poses a risk.

I'm just getting so sick of sitting silent listening to people act holier than thou when covid or not they're at a greater risk of illness based on life choices/stage in life. I wear my mask everywhere I go, I give people space at the grocery store but I'm the villain. It's bull.

I hate to be the ass but people have always died and will always die. It's the way of life, only difference is now we're publicising it daily from one specific cause to instill fear and panic in everyone when realistically the death rate hasn't increased. Don't get me wrong, I have heart and feel bad when people lose a loved one, but we all know that no one is getting out of here alive so let's stop trying to cancel death.
 
People trying to use hospitals for other normal procedures are now being turned away. Perhaps they were going to die anyway, but the increasing number of covid cases is having an effect on the population that needs hospitals for "normal" issues.
We just lost a member of our extended family that had health issues. She was afraid to go to the hospital because of covid and died at home. She may have had a few more years of life if not for the extremes we are experiencing.
Cancer clinics are not able to conduct business as usual. Is this collateral damage?
 
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The next war zone will be when a bold or weak Government decides to add the COVID -19 vaccine to the list of mandatory vaccinations for school aged children. TSB was advocating for it.

I am vaccinated (Booster) and my children are young adults so I don't have a direct interest but would expect this to provoke strong arguments on both sides but wisely most governments are wisely staying clear of this mandate.
 
Evoex said:
Crossing the street is a risk. Taking aspirin is a risk. So is riding your motorcycle.

The % chance of developing heart issues is what again?
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So what you're saying is the government should mandate that we're not allowed to ride motorcycle anymore because we put an increased strain on the hospitals. Because, well we do.

They should mandate no drinking and smoking as that definitely puts an added strain on the medical system, but they'd never do that as it lines theirs pocket books too much.

I weigh the risks in life, which is why I won't ride/race at Mosport, to me it's too dangerous for bikes and not worth it. I won't be getting this current vaccine because to me the risk isn't worth it when it seems to provide negligible benefit to people my age and health.

crankcall said:
Super Veloce Sonny? Did you hack that young ladies account ??


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
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I know, how dare a young lady speak up about what happens to her body. The audacity.

I don't care if you have the vaccine or if you don't, what I care about if forcing your views on to others. What ever happened to prochoice? Or is that only when it involves fetuses?

I know I won't convince any of you to change your views or not be pro-mandate, but maybe me speaking up will help others realize they're not alone in their choice to not get the shot and maybe they'll end up speaking up as well so I don't just look like the only "crazy person".
 
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Amazon said:
So what you're saying is the government should mandate that we're not allowed to ride motorcycle anymore because we put an increased strain on the hospitals. Because, well we do.

They should mandate no drinking and smoking as that definitely puts an added strain on the medical system, but they'd never do that as it lines theirs pocket books too much.

I weight the risks in life, which is why I won't ride/race as Mosport, to me it's too dangerous for bikes and not worth it. I won't be getting this current vaccine because to me the risk isn't worth it when it seems to provide negligible benefit to people my age and health.
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If the hospitals started reporting that say elective surgery was being postponed because the number of injured motorcyclists being admitted was straining the system then i would have a hard time arguing that the government not look into it. At some point it has to become less about you and more about us as a society.

Likewise with your other points.

What % of unvaccinated are taking up the current hospital admissions?
 

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Amazon said:
Your examples are all things that don't physically affect/change your body whether you do them or not.
Forcing the vaccine is not something that can be undone and it does pose a risk. There have been many cases of people developing heart issues and I for one would rather not take that risk. If I were older and in crappier physical shape, I likely would take the vaccine but at this point in my life I have a good chance against the now "cold" and would rather take my chance at possibly getting it then signing up for something that also poses a risk.

I'm just getting so sick of sitting silent listening to people act holier than thou when covid or not they're at a greater risk of illness based on life choices/stage in life. I wear my mask everywhere I go, I give people space at the grocery store but I'm the villain. It's bull.

I hate to be the ass but people have always died and will always die. It's the way of life, only difference is now we're publicising it daily from one specific cause to instill fear and panic in everyone when realistically the death rate hasn't increased. Don't get me wrong, I have heart and feel bad when people lose a loved one, but we all know that no one is getting out of here alive so let's stop trying to cancel death.
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There have been absolutely miniscule risks from the vaccines that equate to pretty nearly the natural occurrence of those risks without vaccines. There’s literally no rational reason to not be vaccinated (barring some rare anaphylactic reactions) but any number of irrational ones. Because they are irrational, you face restrictions on your behaviour because of that.

Also: 2 years on, the vaccines still are not about you.
 
ifiddles said:
@Evoex according to this, the vaccinated are not doing that much better if at all than the unvaccinated...

Dataset - Ontario Data Catalogue

covid-19.ontario.ca covid-19.ontario.ca
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For some reason, I can never get that page to open, but this one works: Hospitalizations

"In hospital but not the ICU"
1353 fully vaccinated out of 1925, 70.3%
457 unvaccinated out of 1925, 23.7%
Leave the partially vaccinated out of it for now.

As of right now, from COVID-19 vaccination coverage in Canada - Canada.ca Ontario has 76.73% of its total population (including children) fully vaccinated, and 17.98% unvaccinated (this group includes children who aren't eligible).

So the unvaccinated are still overrepresented and the fully vaccinated are still underrepresented. The difference isn't what it once was (thanks, omicron) but it's still in favour of being vaccinated. This doesn't account for third doses, it's basically too early for that to show up reliably in the stats.

Note that the ICU has a significantly greater proportion of unvaccinated. (edit: Evoex's post shows how big the discrepancy is.)
 
jc100 said:
There have been absolutely miniscule risks from the vaccines that equate to pretty nearly the natural occurrence of those risks without vaccines. There’s literally no rational reason to not be vaccinated (barring some rare anaphylactic reactions) but any number of irrational ones. Because they are irrational, you face restrictions on your behaviour because of that.

Also: 2 years on, the vaccines still are not about you.
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Ok well, since I see a laughing emoji I guess you don’t agree so….

Why don’t you tell me how the vaccines alter or change your body? Let’s start there then we can look at and refute every other point you made too?
 
Would be interesting to see the demographics of the hospitalizations (age groups)

However, I will go on a limb and say it is most likely a high portion for the highest unvaccinated segments in 13- 40 old adults.

Interestingly Italy and Greece are taking draconian measures against ages 50+ and 60 plus as they most likely represent the ages of people being hospitalized.

And our PM is recklessly slandering the vaccine resistant for political gain and is likely a prelude to more heavy handed mandates to come without debate or approval.

It is time for a more focused educational approach rather than the macro approach is needed.

The impact to society and families with productive adults being fired and students being expelled from College and university is a dark mark.
 
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Evoex said:
Crossing the street is a risk. Taking aspirin is a risk. So is riding your motorcycle.

The % chance of developing heart issues is what again?
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None of the above are contagious.

Re freedoms, Helmet. licenses, registration, insurance are all accepted as lost freedoms.
 
STARSHIP said:
Would be interesting to see the demographics of the hospitalizations (age groups)

However, I will go on a limb and say it is most likely a high portion for the highest unvaccinated segments in 13- 40 old adults.

Interestingly Italy and Greece are taking draconian measures against ages 50+ and 60 plus as they most likely represent the ages of people being hospitalized.

And our PM is recklessly slandering the vaccine resistant for political gain and is likely a prelude to more heavy handed mandates to come without debate or approval.

It is time for a more focused educational approach rather than the macro approach is needed.

The impact to society and families with productive adults being fired and students being expelled from College and university is a dark mark.
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I think the dark mark is the group of people not carrying about the community they live in.
 
Mad Mike said:
If you're really worried about freedoms, try moving south (you have the freedom to do that).
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STARSHIP said:
It is time for a more focused educational approach rather than the macro approach is needed.
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How??

Information that is as good as anyone knows, is out there and readily available, and disinformation and wrong information is every bit as available, and the antivaxxers shout louder. To the average person who is not scientifically oriented and can only rely on others for what they say, do they listen to those who scream bloody murder, or do they dig through boring papers in medical journals and the like for the best available science-based knowledge?

Minds are already made up ... rightly or wrongly.

Quebec's recent decision to require vaccination in order to buy liquor or marijuana apparently prompted some unvaccinated people to get it done ...

If someone chooses to remain unvaccinated, but really does keep themselves away from people, there really is no problem with that. (Very hard to do.)

"Throw it all open, forget that coronavirus exists, party hard" is obviously a problem, but with this omicron thing ... in the next couple of weeks, just going to the grocery store, or going to work, is going to be a problem.

In some ways it's too late to avoid the oncoming train. Everyone that isn't living in a cave, is going to be exposed over the next few weeks.

 
If we have an overtaxed medical system don't blame Covid 19. It has always been like that - held together with band-aids and barely able to keep up because of underfunding. They'll try and tell everyone it's because of the 12% of people who aren't vaccinated, but don't you believe it. Besides, those people are paying into the health care system just like everyone else and they deserve to draw on it when they need it. Covid 19 has become a smokescreen for the severe underfunding of health care in Canada.
 
Roadghost said:
If we have an overtaxed medical system don't blame Covid 19. It has always been like that - held together with band-aids and barely able to keep up because of underfunding. They'll try and tell everyone it's because of the 12% of people who aren't vaccinated, but don't you believe it. Besides, those people are paying into the health care system just like everyone else and they deserve to draw on it when they need it. Covid 19 has become a smokescreen for the severe underfunding of health care in Canada.
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Uh huh.

You`re not selling me that people who choose not get vaccinated then go party it up; spread it far and wide, contract covid and end up in the ICU deserve to draw on it just because. Same way I feel about anyone whose doing wheelies down the 401 at 200km/hr + and wipes out then ends up in the ICU drawing on it.

The underfunding is not a small issue and deserves it's own attention. But like you don't want to blame people for using it, I can't support people from going out of their way to end up there.
 
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