HighSide at Mosport - Aug 17 | Page 7 | GTAMotorcycle.com

HighSide at Mosport - Aug 17

I agree he could have been stuck committing but you can see me cut the throttle at the top of 4 as the guy that just passed me ran up the back of the next guy. I stayed more left then I had in other laps as they got close. He would have seen us all cresting and took a chance. Had he said something after would have gone a long way. But his buddy came up asking if a guy on a fixer 750 had a camera as he wanted to see his pass... gave me the impression they were on a mission to pass fast bikes then say they are so good are. I told him about the pass and he said in Nova Scotia that is normal on their tracks. Told him how close it was and he just said he's crazy but we are going to pass. That guy I talked with crashed out later on in the rain.


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
 
The one that pertained to this video?

https://www.facebook.com/kirby.crosby/videos/10154959134711376/

Different situation and nowhere near as close, but it's an illustration of what happens when a rider in front does something that the rider behind is not expecting.

Yes that's the one, it illustrates the difference in closing speeds even in a race an old stock CBR350 vs a FZR600- a novice rider versus as old time racer. That flow chart for VRRA isn't working as good as boyoboy suggests, and i would argue that VRRA video clip could have ended up every bit as bad as if the Turn 4 stuff pass had gone wrong.
 
We had a lot of discussion about how to do practice groups over the past winter.

This was chosen because (1) Having at least some structure is better than what we had before (self-selection "slow - med - fast - very fast") - essentially no structure, (2) All other options had foreseeable downsides that were as bad or worse, (3) There isn't time in the schedule for having each race class have their own practice session (which is what RACE used to do). Heck, there isn't time in the schedule for each *race* to have its own time slot. (4) We needed to accommodate an increasing number of participants. Don't get me wrong, this is a good problem to have, but it's still a problem.

I believe the situation in the video happened during the endurance race. Otherwise, with the new practice group structure, a P1-P2 bike should never be on the track at the same time as a P4 bike. They never practice together, they never race together - except in the endurance race. Same issue happens at SOAR in the endurance race ...
 
Maybe if track schools taught how to share the track they might help, but as it is they only help riders improve their speed. That's it's own benefit, as a smaller spread in speed differential helps, but you can't really keep the slowest people out.
 
Nothing is perfect. You track guys have it pretty good with groups though. Go ride motocross and it is crazy the varying skill level of riders out on the track at the same time. Yes you guys are going a lot faster but getting landed on sucks.

What I'm getting at is some things may happen that you don't you like or have control over and one organization may do it different then the next but I'm sure the event organizers are trying their best to have a fun safe day for everyone. There is no sense in complaining about how the groups are organized or what other rider's did. Control what you can, that might be your riding and what position your putting yourself into on the track or maybe you simply signed up for the wrong day with the wrong organizers to get what you want out of it. If that's the case maybe load up the truck and go home if you aren't comfortable and find out what track days are more tailored for you. None of this is worth getting upset or worse yet hurt over.
 
I sure as hell didn't do my first Mosport track day the Thursday before a national and sure as hell I wasn't running 1:50s .... so i can't relate of having that problem.

What I can relate to is committing to a pass, unfortunately said pass was closer than what I was expecting but I was still in control and knew I would make it even if it scared the **** out of the other rider, I have had it done to me many times as well.... NEWMAN... This seems to be what happened.

Ethereal , we get your frustration but learn the lesson and move on. What is the lesson? don't do a track day during a national or the Thursday/Friday before a Race weekend at any track, you will be passed everywhere in any group.
 
I am cool with now. I too will not wait to pass. You can hear me talking as we parked for the red flag. I was just surprised at how many condoned it is all. Kid who passed had a ton of skill. I felt that just was not his only option. Know he was about to pass all those guys right before the long strait...


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
 
"Know he was about to pass all those guys right before the long strait..."

The point of a practice session for a racer is to work on cornering speed, braking points, turn-in points, see how much speed can be carried through corners, see what different lines can be taken. Straightaways are irrelevant; anyone can go fast in a straight line; you don't need practice for those. The only way that rider of a small bike has a fighting chance of staying ahead on that straightaway is if he makes the pass as many corners before that straight as possible. If he checks up anywhere then he will NEVER be able to get past. Bear in mind that he was doing somewhere near 16 seconds a lap faster with only a third as much power. Being forced to ride 16 seconds a lap off the pace, because of never being able to get past ... is a complete waste of time.

The track day organizers should not put racers in green group unless they are instructors for the track day - I will say that.

Use it as a learning experience. "Why did this happen". "What can I do to prevent that from happening again". Put yourself in the shoes of the other rider when doing this. Sometimes the answer is "ride faster".
 
OP

By the way, neither the close pass or the crashed 300 were kids. They are far from being kids.
This was not my first track day. It was my first time at Mosport and I was picking my speed up as my tires warmed up. The kid had no reason to come it that hot.
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

Not kids. Majority of the people on 300s are adults well past their 20s. Maybe ditch the big bike and learn how to ride like that on a small bike first?

He didn't come in too hot. He came in at a speed he could clearly handle. Just a bit to close for comfort on a green group rider who wasn't expecting to be passed on the inside.
 
When the dude has a puberty stash and acne I will call him a kid. Sure I would love to go back 15-20 years and take out a smaller bike. But that did not happen. I got a bike and learned fast that the track was where I needed to take it so I could learn better technics and how much my tires can really hold. Just can't win signing up for a green group ride and looking to have fun. You guys will always find something to complain about... go ***** at the other "young men" riding in a t shirts and shorts and racing on the highways... I come to do it the right way and responsibly yet I am the one to blame for this... cute


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
 
When the dude has a puberty stash and acne I will call him a kid. Sure I would love to go back 15-20 years and take out a smaller bike. But that did not happen. I got a bike and learned fast that the track was where I needed to take it so I could learn better technics and how much my tires can really hold. Just can't win signing up for a green group ride and looking to have fun. You guys will always find something to complain about... go ***** at the other "young men" riding in a t shirts and shorts and racing on the highways... I come to do it the right way and responsibly yet I am the one to blame for this... cute


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com


dude. might be a good time for a drink, or a good smoke. I can understand your frustration.
 
When the dude has a puberty stash and acne I will call him a kid. Sure I would love to go back 15-20 years and take out a smaller bike. But that did not happen. I got a bike and learned fast that the track was where I needed to take it so I could learn better technics and how much my tires can really hold. Just can't win signing up for a green group ride and looking to have fun. You guys will always find something to complain about... go ***** at the other "young men" riding in a t shirts and shorts and racing on the highways... I come to do it the right way and responsibly yet I am the one to blame for this... cute


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

If you read my initial post, I agreed with you that it was a sketchy move. What am I complaining about?

You don't need to rewind 15-20 years to get a smaller bike. All you have to do is sell yours. You'll learn way more, get faster, have more fun, spend less and will be safer doing it.
 
Not kids. Majority of the people on 300s are adults well past their 20s. Maybe ditch the big bike and learn how to ride like that on a small bike first?

He didn't come in too hot. He came in at a speed he could clearly handle. Just a bit to close for comfort on a green group rider who wasn't expecting to be passed on the inside.

He came in at a speed and pulled a risky pass not only putting himself at risk but Ethereal as well. Simple as that. Green group guys. Don't forget that. We here to learn safely and responsibly. What this guy did was irresponsible.
 
The older riders need to step up and talk to the organizers, and get things straightened out.

If you keep scaring the **** out of newer riders, and enough quit, there won't be any track days.
 
When the dude has a puberty stash and acne I will call him a kid. Sure I would love to go back 15-20 years and take out a smaller bike. But that did not happen. I got a bike and learned fast that the track was where I needed to take it so I could learn better technics and how much my tires can really hold. Just can't win signing up for a green group ride and looking to have fun. You guys will always find something to complain about... go ***** at the other "young men" riding in a t shirts and shorts and racing on the highways... I come to do it the right way and responsibly yet I am the one to blame for this... cute


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

I haven't seen a single person in this thread say you're to blame.

Maybe I missed it?

I think we've all seen the pass and we all agree that it was pretty tight and for green group it was pretty aggressive. I think we all agree that the groups could/should be shuffled.

What more do you want?
 
The older riders need to step up and talk to the organizers, and get things straightened out.

If you keep scaring the **** out of newer riders, and enough quit, there won't be any track days.

I think that you are losing perspective.

I see 1 mistake by a rider. Almost everyone in here who has seen the pass said that it was likely an error and that the passing rider was the rider who made the error.

This usually results in a short discussion at the track where an apology is given for an error in judgement.

What would you have the TD organizers do? The bikes ARE split into the appropriate groups in my opinion.

Both riders had never been to CTMP.
Both riders had been lead around to be shown lines, stations etc.
Both riders had been told that help was available if they needed more help with instruction.
Both riders were turning almost the same lap times. The passee a 1 57 per the video and the passer a 1 55 during the early morning session as he was being lead by another rider.

It's an isolated incident between 2 riders at a track day.

Advice and offers to help Ethereal at future track days has been given and ignored.

What I continue to read is a guy who seems to want to complain like a great injustice has been completed and a whole lot of internet keyboard experts who seem to think the system is screwed and that other parties hold accountability.

CTMP is the hardest track for balancing bikes and riders in different groups. Funny thing is that from your advise you would want the smaller bike pushed up to intermediate when he has never been to the track before into a group where the lap time differences would have been over 20 seconds a lap and closing speeds much more dramatic
 
Last edited:
I think that you are losing perspective.

I see 1 mistake by a rider. Almost everyone in here who has seen the pass said that it was likely an error and that the passing rider was the rider who made the error.

This usually results in a short discussion at the track where an apology is given for an error in judgement.

What would you have the TD organizers do? The bikes ARE split into the appropriate groups in my opinion.

Both riders had never been to CTMP.
Both riders had been lead around to be shown lines, stations etc.
Both riders had been told that help was available if they needed more help with instruction.
Both riders were turning almost the same lap times. The passee a 1 57 per the video and the passer a 1 55 during the early morning session as he was being lead by another rider.

It's an isolated incident between 2 riders at a track day.

Advice and offers to help Ethereal at future track days has been given and ignored.

What I continue to read is a guy who seems to want to complain like a great injustice has been completed and a whole lot of internet keyboard experts who seem to think the system is screwed and that other parties hold accountability.

CTMP is the hardest track for balancing bikes and riders in different groups. Funny thing is that from your advise you would want the smaller bike pushed up to intermediate when he has never been to the track before into a group where the lap time differences would have been over 20 seconds a lap and closing speeds much more dramatic

I have not ignored the advice given. Have done the track school and continue to learn more each time out. My stance is this was happening all day. This one just happened to be on video. Before showing the video most had already blamed(or suggested) the new guy for just not being used to that close of pass. I agree, that is why I selected the GREEN group. The rules were there for the group, not just some of us. IF that is what was going to happen then a no green group should be offered if they are not going to ensure a safe fun day like advertised. Next time you see a guy wheelie down a 400 HWY then just say to your self "Its ok, he knows what he is doing"
 

Back
Top Bottom