Has the city lost it's mind... | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Has the city lost it's mind...

Glad to see the cops are catching these idiots fairly quick...but come on. Shooting someone with a BB gun...

www.thestar.com

Four teens arrested after person was allegedly shot with BB gun at York University station

Four teens have been arrested, two 15-year-old boys, one 16-year-old and a 15-year-old girl, and Toronto police say it is unclear if this was a random attack.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

Wow, thanks for that insight @Robp that definitely opens another light on the issue. This issue is extremely complicated, and IMO the largest issue here is the lack of access to mental health resources (whether financially or due to stigma).

There is no simple fix to this, and unfortunately it will continue and most likely increase. COVID did a number on many people's mental health, especially those without a support network that they can lean on. Lots of my younger colleagues have had a horrible time during the COVID lockdowns when they were literally sitting at home for months with no one to see, nothing to do, and no one to talk to.

Let's just say many of them are off work much more than normal due to 'mental health strain'.
 
Last edited:
Imo once the issue gets to the point we are at, there is no turning back. It will only snowball and get worse over time. The govt does not have the will to stop it in its tracks and is actively accelerating it.

Look at the police presence at schools for example. Speaking to an officer that was part of that program, she said the vast majority of parents wanted them there. But the parents of the dozen or so bad kids per school were the ones screaming and yelling infront of the cameras because they felt their kids were being singled out.

Look at the solution to gun violence... instead of going after criminals with tougher penalties for possession and import of illegal guns they decide its the legal gun owners fault even though the guns used have nothing to do with them.

It's a lost cause.
 
@Robp I agree with you pretty much. Parenting plays a big role at the start but at some point your sent out of the nest to fly on your own.
And for sure mental health is at the root of much of it. I don't remember mental health being such a big deal. Was it there and always hidden until recently or has our life style increased the strain. Were being told now that a lot of youth struggle and much of it stems from angst over social media.
Pretty sure I'm not having any grandkids and as much as I would love some I really hope my kids don't bring anyone else into this mess. Yeah it is sad.
 
Robp said:
Everyone is different. I grew up the same way. I still did B&E's and stole cars. I was arrested and spent a whole four days in custody. First night in a holding cell, second day in detention in Hamilton, then the weekend in open custody at some house with locked doors. I was 15 years old and had never been in trouble with the law before. You can say that it scared me 90% straight.
But, the real reason I didn't keep going with that lifestyle was my family and friends. My family didn't abandon me, and I still had a loving home to come back to when I got bail. My friends were a mixed pot, three of four were in the same situation as me, while one's parents had enough of him and left him in custody until trial. Honestly, had my friends kept going with that type of crime, I probably would have as well. Family only does so much, but friends influence way more. My belief was always that parents raise kids until they're around 10-12 and then their friends take over. I always hoped that in the first 10-12 years, I would instill enough good values that they would make good choices when their friends suggested something bad.

My partner actually works in a youth facility and what she sees are lots and lots of kids with mental health issues and their parents with mental health issues.

It's such a complicated issue, that from what I know, the vast majority of it leads back to socioeconomic and mental health issues. Seeing people type up that it's parents fault is such a basic thing to say. Sure, it's the parents fault. It's their fault that they were abused as kids, molested or beaten, or whatever. Then you add in that they couldn't afford, or get the support they needed to be able to deal with that trauma. So then they start self medicating. Now you have an addict that can barely take care of themselves, and then you throw a kid in there. Now that kid probably has issues from the mother taking drugs while pregnant, and you know they don't live in white suburbia. So that kid grows up with issues too, and goes to school with lots of other kids with issues. And know one can really talk about the trauma and mental/physical health issues they face, because that would show weakness, and they sure as hell can't show weakness in that environment. So they turn to gangs for protection, because everyone knows that there's safety in numbers.

And the ******* cycle keeps going. And keyboard warriors sit there and type that it's all the parents fault. Yeah, I guess their right. It's all the parents fault. Whatever. I sure as hell don't have the answers either.
Click to expand...
I think most caring people reflect on the past to a degree, thinking of the times they could have used kinder words and actions. I do.

I sound like a grumpy old man when I say it's going to get worse. Young people dream of success but the economics slams the door in their face. A carrot is at the end of a fifty foot stick doesn't provide much incentive.

Could our productivity become as bad as in Russia? Why work hard if there is little chance of success? Vodka becomes the cure.

You can't get a decent job if you have a criminal record. So what! You can't get a decent job if you don't have a criminal record.

Mutual respect has been replaced by money respect. No money, no respect.
 
timtune said:
@Robp
Pretty sure I'm not having any grandkids and as much as I would love some I really hope my kids don't bring anyone else into this mess. Yeah it is sad.
Click to expand...
Catch 22. Forward thinking, intelligent, progressive people choose not to have kids. The high school drop out on pot fathers a six pack with his various crack chicks. They get one vote each.

I was in the office of a subsidized housing complex and overheard a single mom explaining "I ain't got no money for the rent cuz Billy's dad got laid off and Charlie's dad done broke his ankle so all I gots is the money from Sally's"
 
There are so many things to say. But to sit here and type it all out is pointless.

I really just want to say this. How many of us have heard of "root cause analysis"? It just seems like no one is trying to apply that to this problem.

Some call for tougher laws as the answer? I mean, there's places still executing people for murder, and people still murder people there. So even with the threat of death, people still commit that crime. Doesn't seem to me that tougher laws actually work.


To me the root cause of this is mental health. But within that you need to go down into further. What is causing the mental health issue? A small minority of that is genuine physical mental health. The majority of it though? Socioeconomic/systematic racism/illegal drugs is what I believe. Just to add though that I believe it's the fact that only certain drugs are illegal that is the issue, not the drugs themselves. Decimalize all drugs and let's get the addicts the help they need.
 
Robp said:
There are so many things to say. But to sit here and type it all out is pointless.

I really just want to say this. How many of us have heard of "root cause analysis"? It just seems like no one is trying to apply that to this problem.

Some call for tougher laws as the answer? I mean, there's places still executing people for murder, and people still murder people there. So even with the threat of death, people still commit that crime. Doesn't seem to me that tougher laws actually work.


To me the root cause of this is mental health. But within that you need to go down into further. What is causing the mental health issue? A small minority of that is genuine physical mental health. The majority of it though? Socioeconomic/systematic racism/illegal drugs is what I believe. Just to add though that I believe it's the fact that only certain drugs are illegal that is the issue, not the drugs themselves. Decimalize all drugs and let's get the addicts the help they need.
Click to expand...
I think Desmond Tutu summed it up best.

We've got to stop just pulling the bodies out of the river. We've got to go upstream to find out why they're falling in.
 
Speaking of mental health….take a look around you and check in on friends if you feel something is off. Life is short, and many that are struggling won’t ask for help…try to see the signs and at the very least try to reach out.

Found out a good buddy passed away and regardless of the cause, I wish I had spent more time talking to him. Was always happy and good for a laugh, and frankly I would never see any issue when talking…I was wrong.

Guy would give you the shirt off his back but had his own demons.

RIP Joe.
 
One of the problems when they are struggling, they don’t know they are struggling. They think the reality they are in is fine and everyone around them is nuts .
I have a very close connection to a person with NOW diagnosed mental health issues , but for 3-4 yrs , it was ‘everyone else’ . And the closer you are to the situation, the harder it can be to help them.


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
 
To the original question about the city losing its mind, I just discovered that David Milgaard died last May. If anyone asks me why I'm against capital punishment my answer is usually "David Milgaard"

He spent 23 in prison after being wrongly convicted of the rape and murder of a nurse in Saskatchewan.

From Wikipedia:

In January 1969, 16-year-old Milgaard and his friends Ron Wilson and Nichol John embarked on a trip across Canada. The three were in Saskatoon visiting their friend Albert Cadrain when a 20-year-old nursing student, Gail Miller, was found dead on a snowbank in the vicinity of the Cadrain home. Under pressure to solve a crime that had generated significant publicity, police focused their attention on Milgaard, Wilson and John. In an attempt to clear his name and assist the investigation, Milgaard turned himself in to police in Prince George, British Columbia. Police sent him back to Saskatoon, where he was charged with Miller's murder. Milgaard's friends John and Wilson were coerced by police into giving false confessions. Cadrain also gave a false confession and later testified that he had seen Milgaard return the night of Miller's murder in blood-stained clothing. Wilson and John told police they had been with him the entire day and they believed him to be innocent, but changed their stories after police threatened them with prosecution if they did not cooperate.

Within 24 hours police had the real perpetrator in custody. Hmmmm. To serve and protect???

Guy Paul Moran had the same problem decades later here in Ontario when witnesses were coerced into changing their testimonies by police.

Police lied to try and get Forcillo off in the shooting of Sammy Yatim.

I caught a serious crash on my dash cam. I did not turn the SD card over to the police but instead rushed home and transferred the particular portions to a CD for them. If I had given them the SD would they have appreciated my assistance or gone shopping for charges to hit me with?

I'm not perfect and consider myself somewhat conservative.

Where is the mutual trust?

You can't be a little bit pregnant. To resolve this problem every level of society has to purge its evils.
 
nobbie48 said:
To the original question about the city losing its mind, I just discovered that David Milgaard died last May. If anyone asks me why I'm against capital punishment my answer is usually "David Milgaard"

He spent 23 in prison after being wrongly convicted of the rape and murder of a nurse in Saskatchewan.

From Wikipedia:

In January 1969, 16-year-old Milgaard and his friends Ron Wilson and Nichol John embarked on a trip across Canada. The three were in Saskatoon visiting their friend Albert Cadrain when a 20-year-old nursing student, Gail Miller, was found dead on a snowbank in the vicinity of the Cadrain home. Under pressure to solve a crime that had generated significant publicity, police focused their attention on Milgaard, Wilson and John. In an attempt to clear his name and assist the investigation, Milgaard turned himself in to police in Prince George, British Columbia. Police sent him back to Saskatoon, where he was charged with Miller's murder. Milgaard's friends John and Wilson were coerced by police into giving false confessions. Cadrain also gave a false confession and later testified that he had seen Milgaard return the night of Miller's murder in blood-stained clothing. Wilson and John told police they had been with him the entire day and they believed him to be innocent, but changed their stories after police threatened them with prosecution if they did not cooperate.

Within 24 hours police had the real perpetrator in custody. Hmmmm. To serve and protect???

Guy Paul Moran had the same problem decades later here in Ontario when witnesses were coerced into changing their testimonies by police.

Police lied to try and get Forcillo off in the shooting of Sammy Yatim.

I caught a serious crash on my dash cam. I did not turn the SD card over to the police but instead rushed home and transferred the particular portions to a CD for them. If I had given them the SD would they have appreciated my assistance or gone shopping for charges to hit me with?

I'm not perfect and consider myself somewhat conservative.

Where is the mutual trust?

You can't be a little bit pregnant. To resolve this problem every level of society has to purge its evils.
Click to expand...
The tragically hips song wheat kings was about this case
 
Robp said:
Everyone is different. I grew up the same way. I still did B&E's and stole cars. I was arrested and spent a whole four days in custody. First night in a holding cell, second day in detention in Hamilton, then the weekend in open custody at some house with locked doors. I was 15 years old and had never been in trouble with the law before. You can say that it scared me 90% straight.
But, the real reason I didn't keep going with that lifestyle was my family and friends. My family didn't abandon me, and I still had a loving home to come back to when I got bail. My friends were a mixed pot, three of four were in the same situation as me, while one's parents had enough of him and left him in custody until trial. Honestly, had my friends kept going with that type of crime, I probably would have as well. Family only does so much, but friends influence way more. My belief was always that parents raise kids until they're around 10-12 and then their friends take over. I always hoped that in the first 10-12 years, I would instill enough good values that they would make good choices when their friends suggested something bad.

My partner actually works in a youth facility and what she sees are lots and lots of kids with mental health issues and their parents with mental health issues.

It's such a complicated issue, that from what I know, the vast majority of it leads back to socioeconomic and mental health issues. Seeing people type up that it's parents fault is such a basic thing to say. Sure, it's the parents fault. It's their fault that they were abused as kids, molested or beaten, or whatever. Then you add in that they couldn't afford, or get the support they needed to be able to deal with that trauma. So then they start self medicating. Now you have an addict that can barely take care of themselves, and then you throw a kid in there. Now that kid probably has issues from the mother taking drugs while pregnant, and you know they don't live in white suburbia. So that kid grows up with issues too, and goes to school with lots of other kids with issues. And know one can really talk about the trauma and mental/physical health issues they face, because that would show weakness, and they sure as hell can't show weakness in that environment. So they turn to gangs for protection, because everyone knows that there's safety in numbers.

And the ******* cycle keeps going. And keyboard warriors sit there and type that it's all the parents fault. Yeah, I guess their right. It's all the parents fault. Whatever. I sure as hell don't have the answers either.
Click to expand...
As you get older, you get the benefit of looking ar a lifetime of info and experiences. Here are my thoughts.

Mental health issues have always been there, no better or worse today.

Awareness has always been there. In the pastvwe sheltered and hid more things, but they were still there.

Ways of dealing with mental health issues have changed. Not sure if that's made things better or worse.

Way back, Families took a bigger role and assumed more sesponsibility in the past for. So did those with mental health challenges.

End of part 1.
 
Mental health issues have been around as long as people have been around, "mad kings" are in recorded history , the Hapsburg idiots , and inbred royal families. But if you didnt have the benefit of being a ruler , your family may have pursued a couple options, have you institutionalised which happened to thousands , and for every nice pych hospital by the lake we had houses of horror. Or keep you at home and explained as "touched" or slow.
Our ways of dealing with mental health has absolutely changed , I'll say for the better in many cases. We at least now recognized it can be anyone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom