a complete crock comparison.
there are no peers and that is a complete crock ....people vote with their dollars because the products work. Don't talk about what you don't know about ....Macs or bikes.
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H-D has a new boss
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
there are no peers and that is a complete crock ....people vote with their dollars because the products work. Don't talk about what you don't know about ....Macs or bikes.
Motorcycles as a category are being murdered by advances in bicycles and eBikes plus the lack of need for licencing and insurance.
No one will buy a motorcycle for short local transport when an eBike is around for $2k.
There is lots of growth in two wheels transport....it's just not in motorcycles. Chasing a disappearing market not practical.
No one will buy a motorcycle for short local transport when an eBike is around for $2k.
There is lots of growth in two wheels transport....it's just not in motorcycles. Chasing a disappearing market not practical.
sburns
Well-known member
Umm the CPU's used in iPhones are far ahead of the competition, and everyone has copied Apple's notch design. There is no sub-standard here, they are the standard for mobile phones. Just like HD is the standard for cruisers. What other brand of cruiser can get a bunch of riders to comment on bikes they will not own or ride, or other manufactures to try and copy.
Dresden
Well-known member
a complete crock comparison.
there are no peers and that is a complete crock ....people vote with their dollars because the products work. Don't talk about what you don't know about ....Macs or bikes.
I know plenty about branding, thanks.
And I can spot a failing brand strategy from a mile away. So I’ll stick with what I know.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Roadghost
Well-known member
That's the most fascinating thing. The Harley Davidson hate and envy club is an absolute phenomenon. Post a thread anywhere on any bike forum (besides an HD-only forum) and a bunch of guys pile in to attack the company. The threads go on for pages. The entire motorcycle industry is in sales trouble right now, but somehow it's Harley we're led to believe is going bankrupt. But it's nowhere near true, almost laughable and it's been going on for decades. There's no brand I would rather be riding, anywhere in the world. I like Royal Enfield (second biggest large bike maker in the world) for the same reasons, they subscribe to a certain philosophy and they live by it. If you're happy riding your plastic cheap bike, that's fine, but why pizz on people who own something better?
bigpoppa
Well-known member
You answered your own question
ruffriders
Well-known member
I think the main question is can HD continue on the same path or do they go after a market they don’t have? Clearly with their 500 and 750 street this is something they want to do yet the bikes are relatively unknown after some years in production. The biggest thing I see as being a problem is everyone who has a “bigger” Harley makes fun of the smaller “Bit@#” bikes
JTR
Well-known member
That's not really as prevalent as you might think.
ruffriders
Well-known member
You’re probably right, I was just talking to my brother in law who has had Harleys for years, we talked about the new Indian challenger which he agreed was better than a Harley in most ways, his only rebuttal was it just wasn’t a Harley, this is what HD has relied on for decades, younger buyers look at them as old people bikes, kinda like a Buick as my son said, you can build the nicest car on the road but if it’s a Buick... how does HD get past this?
No more than other makes and models.
The newbie that goes out and buys a 600 S/S doesn’t shop for a Ninja 250 does he.
I started on big bikes but not for that reason. Within my first year I was riding with my kids on the back. I wanted them to comfortable so as to start them on the path of enjoying the lifestyle. I also found I wanted to ride long distance. That is what drew my attention to larger displacement touring bikes.
I like the more classic look and sound of a Harley I had no desire what so ever to ride a Gold Wing/ luxo space ship. That narrowed my search to KawasakI, Victory, and HD. The best bang for my buck including holding its value was to buy a used HD with an extended warrant plan.
I had the bike for 3 years it had 70,000km when I bought it and 103,000 when I traded it. I got more than I paid for it on a trade in. Find me any other brand that holds its value like HD. Yes premium bikes cost more.
A good friend bought a new MT09, great bike for the money but the fit and finish is just not the same as my KTM or my other buddies Ducati.
It was $10,000 new and worth every penny
The Ducati was $27,000 new
My Ktm was $15,000 used
I full well expect them to be nicer and they are.
If you can’t identify, can’t afford, or just simply can’t justify then that just fine there is a bike for you.
Being more expensive is nothing to be ashamed of if your offering a better product or experience.
I don’t rip off my clients but if your shopping for the cheapest Contractor I’m not your guy. There are a plethora of reasons why I charge more than my competitors and if a client wants to know what I offer then I will gladly show them.
But when my phone rings and a customer starts with “how much to renovate my kitchen“ he’s probably not my client.
The same way Cadillac has tried to due. Enter into the new market place and do it better not cheaper.
Cadillac was an old mans car
Kia was a cheap car
Most people would buy a CTS V over the Kia Stinger
Corvette is killing it with the C7 and now the mid engine C8
The performance is there, the look is there, the price is down right cheap.
But it’s not a 911, and it sure as hell is no Lamborghini or Ferrari
JTR
Well-known member
Last show I went to, Indian had some nice offerings, but they were't showing the prices like other booths. Went on line and saw why. Everybody knows that the Indians don't have the heritage, because Indian isn't making them. So yeah, they're making some nice bikes, but who knows how it'll stack up over time. I know that HD makes heirloom bikes, bikes made 70 years ago in the same factories are still rolling around. I'd say that's the only thing indian has going against them vs HD.
I wouldn't worry about Harley's demo aging out. Funny thing about age, its an incurable disease that everyone catches. As riders age, they won't be so comfortable on an R6. You get closer to 40 and a lower, more comfortable seat with a straight up feet forward riding position starts to look really good. As you become less interested in dragging your knees, you tend to worry less about a pipe or bag scraping the ground in a turn.
I wouldn't worry about Harley's demo aging out. Funny thing about age, its an incurable disease that everyone catches. As riders age, they won't be so comfortable on an R6. You get closer to 40 and a lower, more comfortable seat with a straight up feet forward riding position starts to look really good. As you become less interested in dragging your knees, you tend to worry less about a pipe or bag scraping the ground in a turn.
TK4
Well-known member
They are bolted to the showroom floors because the dealers don't care and the fit/finish/performance isn't as good as the Japanese competition.
If H-D were serious, they'd give the 500/750s some improvements and expand the model line but they are meant for the offshore market were price is everything.
Pretty terrible example, not only are they not the same class of car, they are not in the same ballpark in terms of specs. twice the performance - twice the price. I wouldn't say the same about MT09 vs ktm duke? or a monster 1290
Some people are just sick and tired of their expensive electronics breaking 12 or 18 months after they buy them and want quality built reliable hardware and software combinations.
The uninformed are quick to jump all over this statement...but Apple products last. My cases in point are the older machines sitting next to me, one dating back to 2006 which still work to this day, and their customer support is documented as one of the best in the industry.
Have they had the occasional hardware snafu and do they do stupid things? Yep. But they tend to stand behind the hardware issues even years after the item in question is out of warranty - I've had a few issues over the years but not ONCE (even on a 2010 Macbook that had a battery that was 4 years out of warranty go bad) did I ever end up paying a dime for support or repairs - they stood behind them.
Do they do stupid things? Hell yes....the reason I just bought a 2014 Macbook Pro used instead of a brand new Macbook from Costco was because I think Apples routine of removing ports at the expense of size is stupid...at least at this point when I have a lot of things I still use that are wired. And I hate the proprietary lightening cable which is why I'm looking forward to the eventual switch to USB-C.
But...in the end, I know it's all going to work for decades to come even if there's minor things I don't like.
My daughter was still using a 2016 iPhone SE up until 2 weeks ago and is still entertaining offers for $100 for it despite it's age...and it's still supported with software updates same day. I have some old iPhones dating back to the 3G and 4 era and they all still boot up and work.
At least they look different. Harleys designs don't "age" because they basically never change much beyond a piece of chrome here or a slight angle there.
1995 Ultraglide:
Current day Ultraglide.
Whenever you go to a rally or something like PD13 and all the HD's line up to each other, it's the motorcycle equivalent of this:
At least the Metrics give you options for those who don't want to ride a cookie cutter.
Where them $1000 Goldwings at?
Comparing to what exactly?
I looked up the new 2020 Vulcan 1700 as a comparison to the ultra limited
895 lbs Kawasaki
917 lbs Ultra limited HD
792 lbs street glide special HD
cost
$20,599 new Kawasaki
$33,899 HD Ultra limited
$24,999 HD street glide special
1/4 mile times had to use 2011 numbers as that what I found
14 sec Kawasaki
13.6 sec Ultra limited
13.3 sec street glide special
looked up used bikes
2018 Vulcan 1700 7778 km $16,288 difference of $4311 cheaper than new
2018 ultra limited 15,070 km $27,904 differenc of $5995 cheaper than new
2018 street glide 4176km $24,999 difference of $1900
Id say your Japanese fatty is right in the middle of these two American girls.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Well, I turned 50 a couple weeks ago and have, if possible, have LESS than zero interest in any HD product. Heavy, clunky bikes.
Me, I'm looking at an Aprilia Tuono 1100 as my next bike - as you mentioned, age has an effect. Give me a twisty road and I can ride my RC8r all day long without issue. Straight on the highway, not so much fun.
Close as I could find quickly
I couldn’t find one for $1000
www.kijiji.ca
I couldn’t find one for $1000
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