Yeah right. Tell that to the policemen who's trying to negotiate with armed murderers with just a baton. How much UK police is shot every year?
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- Thread starter RockerGuy
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Yeah right. Tell that to the policemen who's trying to negotiate with armed murderers with just a baton. How much UK police is shot every year?
Way less than you're thinking.
Facts? Like a year on year decrease in gun related crime? Lol.
Snobike Mike
Banned
Tell me about total crime.
And what say you about the stats posted here already which were:
UK rate of gun homicides per 100k
1992: 0.07
1997 (major set of gun bans): 0.05
2011: 0.06
How about a little education instead? Hint: Look at trends...recent trends. Isolated stats are for bagels.
Snobike Mike
Banned
How about a little education instead? Hint: Look at trends...recent trends. Isolated stats are for bagels.
Well, from 92 to 2011 it went down from 0.07 to 0.06 per 100K. I guess technically you're right, it is down......but wait, it's actually up since the gun ban????????
Somebody should ask Lee Rigby for his opinion. Oh wait........
dragonrider
Well-known member
Why do all the leftards never grasp the idea of dealing with the criminals not the guns if they want to curb the crime?
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No idea, but my spoon made me too fat for my leathers (shameless plug for my upcoming EE ad
) and I keep trying to convince Paul that my keyboard is to blame for that latest infraction he gave me 
P.S. Thanks for making the distinction between "leftist" and "leftard".. I swing a bit left of the NDP (more in line with the Norwegian model), but am still highly in favor of a high degree of personal freedoms.
Lee Rigby made the news precisely because it was such a rare event. Next?
Nope.. Actually the NDP are what I'd categorize as "dumb socialists".. They wanna tax and spend tax and spend but don't have a way to generate revenue. Norway did it by leveraging their natural resources. In a communist economy, the government has total control of the economy. In Norway, the government controls less than (but close to) 1/3 of the economy. While you could live pretty comfortable living off welfare, they enjoy their little luxuries, like their society and would like to contribute to it, so they have one of the lowest unemployment rates out there (less than half of ours). That also means that the private enterprises are getting fat off all those well-paid people so they can afford to keep staffing levels high. They have no debt and are running a HEALTHY surplus. Everybody wins down there. While we could leverage our natural resources the same way and achieve similar results, we don't have the political will to do it. Final argument.. Would a communist government allow your average Range Joe to have toys like this fella?
[video=youtube;JcFGHx-aSHY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcFGHx-aSHY[/video]
Hint: Count the number of rds
Even rarer in Switzerland where every household is legally required to have an assault rifle (something most Americans can't have, believe it or not)
The reasons why this made the news are as follows:
-Gruesome act of terrorism
-Helpless victim
-Unarmed police services unable to assist the victim
On the flip side, look what happened to Alton Nolen. Ok, he got one victim, but would have got a lot more had the on-site manager not been allowed to carry a gun to work. That's the contrast between a society that actively turns its members into victims and a society that values the basic human right to defend yourself.
Even rarer in Switzerland where every household is legally required to have an assault rifle (something most Americans can't have, believe it or not)
The reasons why this made the news are as follows:
-Gruesome act of terrorism
-Helpless victim
-Unarmed police services unable to assist the victim
On the flip side, look what happened to Alton Nolen. Ok, he got one victim, but would have got a lot more had the on-site manager not been allowed to carry a gun to work. That's the contrast between a society that actively turns its members into victims and a society that values the basic human right to defend yourself.
Alton Nolan killed one....Lee Rigby was killed, a number of 1. So? Gruesome acts of terrorism both neither prevented by armed or unarmed populace.
Norways success is also due to an investment in education by the way. Not just natural resources but Hi Tech too.
Question: if a large proportion of the population are bagels (which I agree with btw) does it make sense to give them the freedom to do whatever they like with anything they like? Or is this freedom only open to a select group of armed non bagels seemingly decided upon by a board of self described non bagels?
You did miss out a teensie weensie slightly important detail about Switzerland and Norway.........compulsory military service.
I'd have no problem with the same gun laws here if that was the case.....would you have a problem with your freedom to do whatever you want....as long as you also had to do military service?
I'd have no problem with the same gun laws here if that was the case.....would you have a problem with your freedom to do whatever you want....as long as you also had to do military service?
Motorcycle Mike
Well-known member
If said bagels are competent enough to pass a test to operate other potentially dangerous machinery, say for example, an automobile, then surly these bagels should be given a chance to write a test, demonstrate safety procedures and firearm knowledge, pass police screening for criminal history, have their spouse or common-law partner sign off on them, provide two character witnesses to vouch for them, etc, then maybe they have enough bagel sense to be able to be trusted with a firearm.
Afterall, it's not like just any bagel can get a firearm in this country -- there is something to it, you know.
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There is one substantial difference in this case... Nolan was intent on killing MORE people, so the shooter saved AT LEAST one life, probably more. Rigby's murder just illustrates the point that terrorists can murder people with impunity in an unarmed society.
The reason constitutions and judicial reviews of the laws exist is so bagels don't cause too much damage by pushing for extremely dumb laws. The very reason NRA's ILA (Institute for Legal Action) exists is to fight unconstitutional legislation passed by those bagels and it works. Too bad we don't value our Charter half as much as the Yanks value their Constitution, but that's a topic for another day.
Guns or no guns, I'd be in favor of compulsory military service. Saved my former country from getting invaded by us when we were REALLY itching for a fight to justify NATO's existence as the Soviet Block looked to be down and out and we didn't have Osama/ISIS. Due to the fact that there were millions of people who knew how to shoot and follow orders, plus more than enough guns to arm them, thousands died in the bombings instead of having tens of thousands die fighting the NATO invasion. Also, my mom's former country (Macedonia) was invaded by the KLA from Kosovo and we forbade them from having the police/army engage the invaders. Their cops went to the endangered villages, handed out AK's and crates of ammo to people who in most part also served their compulsory military service. Saved their families from getting raped and/or slaughtered by those savages. (*) Sadly, both countries didn't learn from very recent history and abolished compulsory military service in recent years.
Edit: More innocent Macedonian lives would have been saved had the victims in the villages that weren't reached by the police already had guns and some ammo in their homes.
With that being said, I don't see how compulsory military service makes someone any safer or law-abiding. I found that cops and soldiers, as a group, are much more likely to violate more basic gun safety rules until they learn better from us civvies.
(*) Note: I am not saying that all Albanians in Kosovo (or most, for that matter) are savages, but any troops engaged in a war of conquest can't be named anything but that.
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I think compulsory military service instills some discipline and a healthy appreciation for things civilians take for granted. Possibly being shot at can change the way you behave too I'd imagine. I think it would be a good thing too but I'd also guess that it wouldn't be popular with the younger generations. One side of my family were military. My cousin changed totally more or less overnight once, but watching your friends blown to bits by an IRA bomb will do that.
As for the US constitution....people seem to forget that prohibition was also enshrined into the constitution....but that is conveniently ignored in such arguments.
in short, if there's a need and it's restricted to highly trained (sane) individuals I'm guessing most people wouldn't have a problem with a pretty open firearm policy. Where you and I disagree is on the "need" part and perhaps who these individuals would be. Since there's a high percentage of people who are a danger to themselves with a Bic pen I'd be really concerned if we had a process similar to our driver licensing system that allowed knobs with attitude to become heavily armed knobs on the streets.
As for the US constitution....people seem to forget that prohibition was also enshrined into the constitution....but that is conveniently ignored in such arguments.
in short, if there's a need and it's restricted to highly trained (sane) individuals I'm guessing most people wouldn't have a problem with a pretty open firearm policy. Where you and I disagree is on the "need" part and perhaps who these individuals would be. Since there's a high percentage of people who are a danger to themselves with a Bic pen I'd be really concerned if we had a process similar to our driver licensing system that allowed knobs with attitude to become heavily armed knobs on the streets.
