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Generators

Gasoline vs hybrid. Gas is crap now for storage but there's a $500 difference between gas only and gas / propane models. Also, in a power outage situation, people panic for gas and or gas stations are without power as well so can't sell gas. Is the $500 extra for the hybrid gas / propane units worth it? On gas they last 8 hours, on propane they last 5. Could always rotate the 5 Gallon gas containers into the car every couple of months I guess.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.
 
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-Maverick- said:
Stupid question (there are no stupid questions) but are there any db bylaws for generators? Could a bylaw shut you down in the cold? I see they run ~70 db. Honda being the quietest.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.
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Inverter generators from any brand are VERY quiet.

The Champion home standby gennys have an oversized muffler and noise insulation padding inside. They are the quietest home standby on the market. That's one area generac needs to improve
 
-Maverick- said:
Stupid question (there are no stupid questions) but are there any db bylaws for generators? Could a bylaw shut you down in the cold? I see they run ~70 db. Honda being the quietest.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.
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My 2Kw Honda is very quite but that changes with load. I suspect a larger generator running at a lower load factor would be quieter than a small unit running at full capacity.

I suspect that the furnace has to be hard wired so theoretically a transfer switch is needed. Hypothetically one could be made from a three way switch but at some point a piece of cabtire enters the circuit. Cabtire is not approved for permanent wiring. The chances of getting caught are minimal.

I don't know if ESA would approve a male receptacle that would make the emergency connection. I envision needing a special inspection. Too many DIY types have made the pro's worried about anything unconventional.

 
whichever way you go ' dont cheap out on the important parts like a transfer switch UNLESS you actually know what your doing. Not think you do , actually know.
King is easy to get parts for and they have a lot of service depots , but bare in mind , those depots will service the landscapers and arborists that keep them busy and get to you later.
I did a lot of consulting at one point for a generator importer, were trying to replicate Fisher/Panda and Onan. We did not.

Champion and Generac are very good units generally , talk to an electrical contractor in the business and take their advice. Most DO NOT want to be back at your house every 3 months, they want a clean installation and on to the next project.
 
-Maverick- said:
Gasoline vs hybrid. Gas is crap now for storage but there's a $500 difference between gas only and gas / propane models. Also, in a power outage situation, people panic for gas and or gas stations are without power as well so can't sell gas. Is the $500 extra for the hybrid gas / propane units worth it? On gas they last 8 hours, on propane they last 5. Could always rotate the 5 Gallon gas containers into the car every couple of months I guess.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.
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You can't get propane either if the power is out. Obviously whatever you have doesn't spoil like gas. My parents have a submarine so running out of propane isn't really an issue.

Given the choice, I would go NG every time. Almost unlimited supply, doesn't go bad, etc.
 
nobbie48 said:
Question: If your neighbours are close would you share your power?
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I have a couple of motorcycle batteries in the garage - I keep them fully charged - neighbors are free to take them in an emergency.

My backup genie is a classic Honda EX850 -- in an emergency I'll call a local realtor and have them setup a bidding war.
 
-Maverick- said:
Gasoline vs hybrid. Gas is crap now for storage but there's a $500 difference between gas only and gas / propane models. Also, in a power outage situation, people panic for gas and or gas stations are without power as well so can't sell gas. Is the $500 extra for the hybrid gas / propane units worth it? On gas they last 8 hours, on propane they last 5. Could always rotate the 5 Gallon gas containers into the car every couple of months I guess.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.
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A small engine will run on 10 year old non-ethanol gas - they aren't too fussy. I used to buy fix and sell lightly used gennies for fun. Virtually every one had a gummy carb - no start, hard to start, and ran like crap because owners fired them up every couple of years and never drained fuel from the carb. Look on marketplace or kijiji and you'll find a small units for under $100 - they all need carb cleans.

Champion, Hyundai, Firman etc are so cheep today there's no point in fixing up a gummed up unit.
 
Mad Mike said:
A small engine will run on 10 year old non-ethanol gas - they aren't too fussy. I used to buy fix and sell lightly used gennies for fun. Virtually every one had a gummy carb - no start, hard to start, and ran like crap because owners fired them up every couple of years and never drained fuel from the carb. Look on marketplace or kijiji and you'll find a small units for under $100 - they all need carb cleans.

Champion, Hyundai, Firman etc are so cheep today there's no point in fixing up a gummed up unit.
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How do you get the furnace hooked up? As @GreyGhost mentioned that may be a trickier setup than just a plug and play.
 
mimico_polak said:
How do you get the furnace hooked up? As @GreyGhost mentioned that may be a trickier setup than just a plug and play.
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I posted this a few back.


If it is legit the furnace gets wired to it along with the cable from the breaker panel.

When the power goes out you run an extension cord to the male inlet on the device and flick the switch to generator.

I don't guarantee that ESA will approve as they often have their own mindset based on a previous experience. It's understandable because too many people have used widow maker cheater cords and failed to isolate. I just about lost a friend that way. Fortunately he double checked and found out that the 13KV transformer was being back fed from a generator via a cheater cord.
 
Mad Mike said:
I have a couple of motorcycle batteries in the garage - I keep them fully charged - neighbors are free to take them in an emergency.

My backup genie is a classic Honda EX850 -- in an emergency I'll call a local realtor and have them setup a bidding war.
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My concern is that people are dumb. When I was in construction there was often just one outlet in an area. Before battery tools there would be extension cords plugged into extension cords and then someone would plug in a heater and we'd lose everything.

A question or three would sort out those qualified to plug into a limited power supply.
 
nobbie48 said:
I posted this a few back.


If it is legit the furnace gets wired to it along with the cable from the breaker panel.

When the power goes out you run an extension cord to the male inlet on the device and flick the switch to generator.

I don't guarantee that ESA will approve as they often have their own mindset based on a previous experience. It's understandable because too many people have used widow maker cheater cords and failed to isolate. I just about lost a friend that way. Fortunately he double checked and found out that the 13KV transformer was being back fed from a generator via a cheater cord.
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Although I do not condone backfeedubg in any way and stories like that seem plausible at first, with further thought it seems implausible. Assuming a house was back feeding, the odds are incredibly high that it is a portable generator and the power source so 10Kw or less. Power goes from the panel, out through the meter base to the transformer. If I understand things correctly, a number of neighbours are paralleled on what is normally the load side of the transformer so not only would you be back feeding the transformer you would also be powering all of your neighbours. That should blow the breaker on the generator. Obviously in the country with one house on a transformer, things are different and it would be easy for your friend to get hurt.
 
nobbie48 said:
My concern is that people are dumb. When I was in construction there was often just one outlet in an area. Before battery tools there would be extension cords plugged into extension cords and then someone would plug in a heater and we'd lose everything.

A question or three would sort out those qualified to plug into a limited power supply.
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If I had a standby generator, neighbours would be welcome to plug in an extension cord. That gives them ~15 amps. If they blow it, it doesnt change anything in my life. Since my solution has less than 2000 watts available, parallel hookup is not an option. For most of my neighbours, we could move the generator to a new house every few hours to get the houses warm and fridges cold. The one little generator could probably protect 10 or more houses from damage (assuming gas fired furnaces).
 
GreyGhost said:
Although I do not condone backfeedubg in any way and stories like that seem plausible at first, with further thought it seems implausible. Assuming a house was back feeding, the odds are incredibly high that it is a portable generator and the power source so 10Kw or less. Power goes from the panel, out through the meter base to the transformer. If I understand things correctly, a number of neighbours are paralleled on what is normally the load side of the transformer so not only would you be back feeding the transformer you would also be powering all of your neighbours. That should blow the breaker on the generator. Obviously in the country with one house on a transformer, things are different and it would be easy for your friend to get hurt.
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The case was a refinery with a unit shut down for maintenance. A contractor came in on the weekend and found he didn't have power at his site trailer so he plugged a widow maker into an outlet, back feeding the 13Kv transformer. Fortunately it was caught before it did any harm other than the well deserved reaming for the contractor.
 
GreyGhost said:
If I had a standby generator, neighbours would be welcome to plug in an extension cord. That gives them ~15 amps. If they blow it, it doesnt change anything in my life. Since my solution has less than 2000 watts available, parallel hookup is not an option. For most of my neighbours, we could move the generator to a new house every few hours to get the houses warm and fridges cold. The one little generator could probably protect 10 or more houses from damage (assuming gas fired furnaces).
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I'm also a cynic. People today whine about their latte being a degree too cold or hot. Wait until their house temperature swings ten degrees. OMG.

FWIW the pioneers would extend the life of perishables in summer by putting them down a dug well.
 
mimico_polak said:
How do you get the furnace hooked up? As @GreyGhost mentioned that may be a trickier setup than just a plug and play.
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The simplest way to do it is to have receptacle on the switched side of the furnace circuit. If the power fails, unplug the furnace from the house then plug it into the gennie.
 
Not sure if you'd be in the situation for the new truck but thought I'd mention the new F150 with the pro power.

Long video but really shows the strengths of the new hybrid system. Now I know why there were so many texans running their place off these earlier in the year.

7.2kw, engine only turns on periodically depending on battery and load (much quieter even while running compared to traditional generator). No need to worry about bad gas or carbs, or a separate machine to maintain or install.

I'd just set up a bypass in the panel for some key circuits and get a plug set-up. In the event of an outage just plug it in and flip the switch.
like this: Easy-Generator-to-Home-Hook-Up
 
My family are pioneers to Ontario, however most municipalities have a law against dug wells , little Timmy kept falling down them.

As an example of electrical competence we just had a 220v crane serviced and the wanted to leave a 110v motor as a spare. Only three wires running out to the crane , red/black/ground . Idiot on the job thought black to black , red to ground and its 110vs!! Yes he was a licensed crane technician . No he does not work on our property anymore.
 
Mad Mike said:
The simplest way to do it is to have receptacle on the switched side of the furnace circuit. If the power fails, unplug the furnace from the house then plug it into the gennie.
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That would normally require cabtire and it's probably not approved for anything permanent. A good inspector would understand a competent home owner but the inspector also has to consider the house being sold to an incompetent person. We must protect the incompetent.
 
killvino said:
Not sure if you'd be in the situation for the new truck but thought I'd mention the new F150 with the pro power.

Long video but really shows the strengths of the new hybrid system. Now I know why there were so many texans running their place off these earlier in the year.

7.2kw, engine only turns on periodically depending on battery and load (much quieter even while running compared to traditional generator). No need to worry about bad gas or carbs, or a separate machine to maintain or install.

I'd just set up a bypass in the panel for some key circuits and get a plug set-up. In the event of an outage just plug it in and flip the switch.
like this: Easy-Generator-to-Home-Hook-Up
Click to expand...
A $100,000 portable generator if you can find one. :)
 
nobbie48 said:
That would normally require cabtire and it's probably not approved for anything permanent. A good inspector would understand a competent home owner but the inspector also has to consider the house being sold to an incompetent person. We must protect the incompetent.
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ESA had no problem at my place. I did it when I changed out the aluminum wiring in 2010. No armour (BX or Cabtire) is required as long as the connection to the furnace is 1.5m above the floor.
 
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