Fundamentals of math are back! And more.

@Trials I had a hard enough time learning the D2L platform for this emergency remote learning, let alone trying to learn C programming....I went to high school when we had 2 Macintosh Apples and had to use those fill in the bubble cards which were then sent off to some organization and we received floppy discs in return to see if what we wrote worked or not...I'll be doing some self regulated PD this summer (unless someone wants to teach me virtually)

Edit: no, I have a laptop that's super old and an Asus desktop which is a few years old...honestly hate Apple products...
 
It's too easy not to learn and it sounds like you need it.
 
If there doing things like the Khan Academy, then it isn't really programming. It's just a series of function calls.
It used to be that you'd physically tell the computer what to do.
Then you'd tell a special program what to tell the computer to do.
At this point we're many, many, more intermediate programs in.

The key item to remember is that equals does not mean equals in coding. It is used as an assignment operator.
e.g. X=X+1;
If X was previously two, then after this statement runs, it will be three.
If you were to try and think in math terms, X=X+1; makes no sense.
 
When I read the post it made perfect sense to me did it make sense to anybody else? :unsure:
 
ifiddles said:
@Trials I had a hard enough time learning the D2L platform for this emergency remote learning, let alone trying to learn C programming....I went to high school when we had 2 Macintosh Apples and had to use those fill in the bubble cards which were then sent off to some organization and we received floppy discs in return to see if what we wrote worked or not...I'll be doing some self regulated PD this summer (unless someone wants to teach me virtually)

Edit: no, I have a laptop that's super old and an Asus desktop which is a few years old...honestly hate Apple products...
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I think the level you are dealing with is likely to focus on the concepts of input/output, data, variables, if-then-else, jumps and loops. I highly doubt there will be focus on programming languages or complex data arrangements.

Stick to the simple concepts that are appropriate for the ages you are teaching, master those then move along a learning path that expands on coding concepts. Learning the specifics of a language comes way later.

The thought of learning to code can be daunting -- it looks as difficult as learning a new spoken language. It's not, really that hard - all you're doing is breaking things down into little steps then executing them.

A lot of things we take for granted are 'coded' in everyday life. A simple example is recipe for making a loaf of bread. There are inputs (ingredients, heat), variables (measures of ingredients, oven temperatures, time), operations (fold, mix, wait, knead, bake), and conditions (if dough rises to double then knead else wait) etc. If you change inputs, variables, order of operations, the output will vary -- that's the same thing with a coded program!

Keep it simple at the start.
 
It's for grade 2, you have to bring it down to a grade 2 level, it's going to need to be a pretty simple demonstration that can be taught visually, which means you need to be able to mess with it and watch how it changes for you.

Should take about one month to learn enough simple C programming to demonstrate simple programming. if there is such a thing :|
 
Trials said:
It's for grade 2, you have to bring it down to a grade 2 level, it's going to need to be a pretty simple demonstration that can be taught visually, which means you need to be able to mess with it and watch how it changes for you.

Should take about one month to learn enough simple C programming to demonstrate simple programming. if there is such a thing :|
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They syntax requirements of a proper programming language are probably enough to wipe out the feasibility for the average grade 2 class. One of the linked child-friendly languages is probably better in the short run. They can't learn if they can't get the program to run because they didn't initialize variables correctly.
 
ifiddles said:
Edit: no, I have a laptop that's super old and an Asus desktop which is a few years old...honestly hate Apple products...
Click to expand...
Apple has been pretty smart with coding for kids you can do this stuff on a iPad.
www.apple.com

Swift Playgrounds

Swift Playgrounds is an iPad and Mac app that teaches you to write Swift code in a fun, interactive way. Learn the code developers use to build apps.
www.apple.com

I am sure the beginning stuff will just be learning the basics like any spoken language you might learn.
 
So they are going to go straight to manipulating Objective C++ objects :unsure: M'Kay, I guess that might work too.

I was thinking more along the line of something that calculates currency exchange rates or temperature, simple like that
 
ifiddles said:
Can someone familiar with coding explain this to me and direct me to a course where I can learn this...I'll have to teach my grade 2s this starting in September...



Mathematics, Grade 2

C3. Coding

Specific expectations

By the end of Grade 2, students will:

C3.1

solve problems and create computational representations of mathematical situations by writing and executing code, including code that involves sequential and concurrent events

C3.2

read and alter existing code, including code that involves sequential and concurrent events, and describe how changes to the code affect the outcomes
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DO NOT USE C OR C++

I don't know why some are suggesting it here. I learned programming on C and C++ then moved onto low level game engines. There is no reason for grade 2 students to have to deal with pointer arithmetic. Hell, I bet the teachers won't understand it.

Use a OS agnostic language such as Java, .NET Core (C# or Visual basic), or Python. In my opinion, .NET Core with C# is probably one of the least painful paths because Visual Studio has a Community Edition (free, works on Mac) and it is hands down the most powerful IDE....unless some of you think it's a good idea to use Notepad then compile through bash or cmd (which is ******* stupid and outside of the scope of the quoted post.)

Using the above, literally just teach them hello world, if, while, for, do while, and maybe foreach and this is probably enough for the year. I was a TA and people in first year university actually struggled with this ****; you can bet grade 2s are gonna have issues.

You're also gonna run into an ass ton of issues involving different working environments (MacOS vs Windows vs the kid that's running Linux [okay if running Linux, they can probably teach the class lol].

Or.......another serious suggestion: remove the computer entirely out of the equation and get them to just write code on paper. My rationale behind this is that compiling and development environments are a different problem that people seem to forget when they make programming courses; many people struggle with this **** because they don't do it for fun and it isn't mentioned in the course work.

EDIT: Actually, just find a virtual website based IDE. This would mean they only need a browser and would remove the individual's computer setup variable. This is an example of one: Learn to Code - for Free | Codecademy (hell just rip their JavaScript lessons.)

Trials said:
So they are going to go straight to manipulating Objective C++ objects :unsure: M'Kay, I guess that might work too.

I was thinking more along the line of something that calculates currency exchange rates or temperature, simple like that
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They will fail lol The latter is more plausible.
 
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GreyGhost said:
A friend went to home depot to pick up some drywall. He had a pile of 1/2" board 2' deep. The teller counted the doubles and charged him for 24 sheets. My buddy tried to explain the screw up and the teller couldn't understand. My buddy gave up arguing and took his half price board. It's sad, but stores really need to make sure their staff has some fundamental logic and math base or it will cost them a lot in the long run. Hell, I was at CT getting stackable patio chairs one time and we had to go get them from a trailer in the parking lot. I bought four chairs. The employee pushed four boxes of eight out of the trailer and told me to have a good day. Ugh. Brain son. Use your brain.
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I did a service call with time on site 8:00 to 11:45 and invoiced accordingly for 3.75 hours. The book keeper called and complained I was padding the bill, saying it should have been 3.45 hours. Ten minutes of explanation later she grudgingly said she'd let me get away with it this time.
 
GreyGhost said:
They syntax requirements of a proper programming language are probably enough to wipe out the feasibility for the average grade 2 class. One of the linked child-friendly languages is probably better in the short run. They can't learn if they can't get the program to run because they didn't initialize variables correctly.
Click to expand...
I don't think syntax is something they teach in the beginning, that's language specific stuff. More like Lego -- sticking blocks in order to make something happen, then try to make something different happen by changing variables and rearranging the blocks.

Im guessing the collective experience here is biased to coding, not teaching 7 year olds. To them C is for “cat”.
 
nobbie48 said:
I did a service call with time on site 8:00 to 11:45 and invoiced accordingly for 3.75 hours. The book keeper called and complained I was padding the bill, saying it should have been 3.45 hours. Ten minutes of explanation later she grudgingly said she'd let me get away with it this time.
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And for sure she grew up when times tables were memorized.
 
Trials said:
Tell the car dealer you are buying the car cash outright and they really have no idea how to handle that Then they actually try to convince you it's a bad idea to own things, then I leave and go buy it elsewhere.
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We looked at a Kia Forte years ago.
Wife tells the sales guy/ manager that we want to pay cash.
He says take the 0% financing deal for 5 years and drop the $20k on the mortgage.
I thought that made sense.
Am I wrong?
(We ended up not buying the Kia)

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 
ifiddles said:
@Trials I had a hard enough time learning the D2L platform for this emergency remote learning, let alone trying to learn C programming....I went to high school when we had 2 Macintosh Apples and had to use those fill in the bubble cards which were then sent off to some organization and we received floppy discs in return to see if what we wrote worked or not...I'll be doing some self regulated PD this summer (unless someone wants to teach me virtually)

Edit: no, I have a laptop that's super old and an Asus desktop which is a few years old...honestly hate Apple products...
Click to expand...
I hate D2L
I wish the boards/ grades/ teachers could all figure out which program to use, and just use one.
My grade 11 had some teachers on D2L, some on Google Classroom and iirc one other program/ site.
My youngest just used Google Classroom for the learning. He still has D2L for some things, but they moved most links to Google.
That was pretty easy to figure out.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 
Joe Bass said:
We looked at a Kia Forte years ago.
Wife tells the sales guy/ manager that we want to pay cash.
He says take the 0% financing deal for 5 years and drop the $20k on the mortgage.
I thought that made sense.
Am I wrong?
(We ended up not buying the Kia)

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
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Could you save up the full price of the car in the 5 years?
If you dump it on the mortgage, you don't have it for the car.
Can you make your mortgage payments, and household expenses while saving for the car?

The plan for them is that you'll blow the money on something nice, not on the mortgage, or the mortgage won't be open for 20 grand.
After 5 years, you won't have saved anything, you'll owe 20 grand on a car that's in the bucket 15, and worth 5, so you can't sell it.
Then they'll give you a new "special" interest rate.
 
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@Baggsy truthfully, yes. My wife could save up the money for the payments and the mortgage.
She is amazing like that.

I think it would have actually been a good move. But she ended up wanting to just pay cash for a vehicle and not worry about payments.
We ended up with a killer deal on a Ford Escape.
10 years later it's still going strong. Soon it will hit 70,000 kms lol

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 
Baggsy said:
Could you save up the full price of the car in the 5 years?
If you dump it on the mortgage, you don't have it for the car.
Can you make your mortgage payments, and household expenses while saving for the car?

The plan for them is that you'll blow the money on something nice, not on the mortgage, or the mortgage won't be open for 20 grand.
After 5 years, you won't have saved anything, you'll owe 20 grand on a car that's in the bucket 15, and worth 5, so you can't sell it.
Then they'll give you a new "special" interest rate.
Click to expand...

If it's "financing" for five years, it means the car is paid off in full after five years.

But yes, one of the dealership hooks around financing or leasing is to get you used to a regular car payment. After five years, instead of banking what used to be your car payment, the dealership is hoping you will want to upgrade or buy another model with all that freed up income.

If you buy a car in cash (still not necessarily the best idea, financially speaking, IMO), you're less likely to want to take on car payments in the future or blow another big chunk of change on upgrading or trading in. More likely, you'll keep the car much longer than five years.
 
Sadly 0% financing rarely happens for a car or truck I want to buy, that's only for the cars and trucks they can not sell as fast as they need to.
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