Find a soft wall to bang your head against

[F3800RC]

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Then do it again, in a public forum - the message isn't getting out.

How IBC plans to keep insurance “affordable and available” across Canada

Following years of significant commercial insurance losses, Insurance Bureau of Canada (IBC) has launched a national task force to examine ways to help Canadian consumers mitigate risk and manage costs. The National Commercial Insurance Task Force will bring together insurers,…

www.canadianunderwriter.ca

 

[Mad Mike]

Not a fan of this broker but it's a good article

Do Insurance Companies Ever Lose Money on Auto Insurance? | Mitch Insurance Brokers

You think insurance companies are getting rich because your auto insurance premiums are rising? It’s kinda the opposite.

mitchellwhale.com

That's the talking head stuff IBC feeds brokers, again you prove your deep knowledge of insurance. Despite that tragic loss,

Then do it again, in a public forum - the message isn't getting out.

I think a good start on reform would be to make AB the responsibility of the province, fund it by an annual premium on your licence. Limit liability and the ability to sue -- this cuts out the ambulance chaser industry (lawyers, expert consultants and therapists) who make victims think accidents are as good as winning Lottomax tickets. Fund this with an annual fee on your DL, stepping the rates based on demerits. Quebec does this successfully and they have the lowest rates in Canada. Not only would this be an immediate reduction in fraud, it would be easy to implement as the administration of benefits would be simpler and the system for rehabilitating injured is already used for these purposes.

Next would be fraud fighting. Insurers should have some incentive and tools to fight fraud -- right now they do little and are allowed to pass along fraud losses to honest customers. For example, rescue towing could be regulated -- flat rate for recovery and towing based on the service and distances. Next would be allowing insurers to provide a list of 'preferred shops' and incentives for users to use an approved vendor. For example, if you chose an approved body shop you get a warranty and rental car free - or - choose you own and you can receive whatever benefits that shop chose to offer you.

Next, deregulate competition. Allowing competition to the existing cartel members will force industry efficiencies and innovation. Most Ontario insurance companies run COR of near break even, with operating expenses around 35%. Their payouts $$$ are much higher than their US free market competitors, yet their claim ratio lower -- meaning they are not as good at managing payouts and the operating conditions of the market permit an industry designed solely to exploit the system (the ambulance chasers and their down stream symbiotic parasites). Furthermore, their operating expenses at 35% are nearly double that of free market providers meaning their operations are less efficient. Adjust that for the lower premiums the free market collects and the operating efficiency is abysmal.

Those inefficiency are they because the market is a cartel managed affair. The cartel collectively agrees NOT to do things like offering blanket liability or AB policies -- that's the insurers not the regulators.

Finally, make the actuarial data transparent. Insurers should have to list payout and risk analysis buy vehicle and driver profile.

Do that and our rates could be 1/2 what they are today.

 

[TK4]

How IBC plans to keep insurance “affordable and available” across Canada

Following years of significant commercial insurance losses, Insurance Bureau of Canada (IBC) has launched a national task force to examine ways to help Canadian consumers mitigate risk and manage costs. The National Commercial Insurance Task Force will bring together insurers,…

www.canadianunderwriter.ca

This article was about the trucking and condo insurance business - what's that got to do with motorcycles and cars ?

 

[F3800RC]

That's the talking head stuff IBC feeds brokers, again you prove your deep knowledge of insurance. Despite that tragic loss,

I think a good start on reform would be to make AB the responsibility of the province, fund it by an annual premium on your licence. Limit liability and the ability to sue -- this cuts out the ambulance chaser industry (lawyers, expert consultants and therapists) who make victims think accidents are as good as winning Lottomax tickets. Fund this with an annual fee on your DL, stepping the rates based on demerits. Quebec does this successfully and they have the lowest rates in Canada. Not only would this be an immediate reduction in fraud, it would be easy to implement as the administration of benefits would be simpler and the system for rehabilitating injured is already used for these purposes.

Next would be fraud fighting. Insurers should have some incentive and tools to fight fraud -- right now they do little and are allowed to pass along fraud losses to honest customers. For example, rescue towing could be regulated -- flat rate for recovery and towing based on the service and distances. Next would be allowing insurers to provide a list of 'preferred shops' and incentives for users to use an approved vendor. For example, if you chose an approved body shop you get a warranty and rental car free - or - choose you own and you can receive whatever benefits that shop chose to offer you.

Next, deregulate competition. Allowing competition to the existing cartel members will force industry efficiencies and innovation. Most Ontario insurance companies run COR of near break even, with operating expenses around 35%. Their payouts $$$ are much higher than their US free market competitors, yet their claim ratio lower -- meaning they are not as good at managing payouts and the operating conditions of the market permit an industry designed solely to exploit the system (the ambulance chasers and their down stream symbiotic parasites). Furthermore, their operating expenses at 35% are nearly double that of free market providers meaning their operations are less efficient. Adjust that for the lower premiums the free market collects and the operating efficiency is abysmal.

Those inefficiency are they because the market is a cartel managed affair. The cartel collectively agrees NOT to do things like offering blanket liability or AB policies -- that's the insurers not the regulators.

Finally, make the actuarial data transparent. Insurers should have to list payout and risk analysis buy vehicle and driver profile.

Do that and our rates could be 1/2 what they are today.

you type excellent responses that have no basis in fact.
- talking head stuff? you don’t like the info but that doesn’t make it wrong
-Quebec has a tort system that makes a difference too
- towing rates are controlled here
- you want the government to pay for AB? All taxes will go up nothing is free and look at the 860 million loss the iCBC sustained the beginning of last year, that’s with tax payers supplementing premiums.
- payouts in the us are way bigger than here what are you talking about ?

Are Nuclear Verdicts Out Of Control?

www.benzinga.com

- why do you think deregulation would lower prices? Over the last 15 years the markets cut each other’s prices over and over to gain market share. What did we get? No profit and a hard market that sent prices soaring. Less regulation would not mean cheaper in the long run.
- your math doesn’t work either , cut operating expenses and premiums would be in half? If the 35 percent operating expenses number you use is correct even if the expenses went to zero the premium’s couldn’t go in half .get real , that math doesn’t work even with all the other things you mentioned .
I’ll just leave this here ..I’m doing a speech on the current insurance market in the next couple of months to a room of 500 plus business owners who have invited me to speak. i did the same thing in the last hard market, I did not volunteer they reached out and asked me to speak , so clearly I know what I’m talking about .
So who has more credibility with their knowledge of the market me or you?

 

[F3800RC]

This article was about the trucking and condo insurance business - what's that got to do with motorcycles and cars ?

The market is all connected it isn’t segmented and one section reflects on all parts of insurance . It’s a pool of funds don’t you know that ?

 

[TK4]

The market is all connected it isn’t segmented and one section reflects on all parts of insurance . It’s a pool of funds don’t you know that ?

Another reason to decentralize the insurance system. Auto and motorcycle insurance is subsidizing trucking and property ???
So if there's a hurricane, my motor vehicle premiums will go up even though there's no cause and effect.
That's ridiculous - and another good reason for an open, public examination of how the insurance cartel works in this province.

 

[F3800RC]

Another reason to decentralize the insurance system. Auto and motorcycle insurance is subsidizing trucking and property ???
So if there's a hurricane, my motor vehicle premiums will go up even though there's no cause and effect.
That's ridiculous - and another good reason for an open, public examination of how the insurance cartel works in this province.

They both support each other , in any multi stream revenue business one supports the other . It helps stabilize premiums. Trust me you wouldn’t want it the other way, commercial insurance is more profitable than personal generally. . there is no insurance cartel take off your tinfoil hat

 

[Mad Mike]

I’ll just leave this here ..I’m doing a speech on the current insurance market in the next couple of months to a room of 500 plus business owners who have invited me to speak. i did the same thing in the last hard market, I did not volunteer they reached out and asked me to speak , so clearly I know what I’m talking about .
So who has more credibility with their knowledge of the market me or you?

Probably me.

But send me an invite to your talk, TED. Hopefully it's not one of the days I'm golf with the industry's old boys club.

 

[Mad Mike]

They both support each other , in any multi stream revenue business one supports the other . It helps stabilize premiums. Trust me you wouldn’t want it the other way, commercial insurance is more profitable than personal generally. . there is no insurance cartel take off your tinfoil hat

Do you even understand the definition of Cartel?

 

[TK4]

They both support each other , in any multi stream revenue business one supports the other . It helps stabilize premiums. Trust me you wouldn’t want it the other way, commercial insurance is more profitable than personal generally. . there is no insurance cartel take off your tinfoil hat

What are you so afraid of ? An open and public dialogue may support or disprove you. Get it out in the open where everyone can see.
Let me ask you (again) - how many people do you think are out there driving and riding dirty because they cannot afford basic insurance under the present system ?
I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat, I'm just asking for transparency.

 

[F3800RC]

Probably me.

But send me an invite to your talk, TED. Hopefully it's not one of the days I'm golf with the industry's old boys club.

Sorry you know nothing.You have no credibility , you have no arguments that make any sense and you have no long term industry knowledge. go golfing , does anyone even waste their time doing that anymore ? Maybe old boys who don’t know anything either, the worst insurance people with the least amount of knowledge are the “ old boys” so enjoy it ..end of rant.

 

[TK4]

Do you even understand the definition of Cartel?

The definition seems pretty clear to me...
cartel
[kärˈtel] NOUN : an association of manufacturers or suppliers with the purpose of maintaining prices at a high level and restricting competition.

 

[F3800RC]

What are you so afraid of ? An open and public dialogue may support or disprove you. Get it out in the open where everyone can see.
Let me ask you (again) - how many people do you think are out there driving and riding dirty because they cannot afford basic insurance under the present system ?
I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat, I'm just asking for transparency.

Can you say afraid any more ...no one is afraid ...do whatever inquiry you or they want
the cost of something doesn’t mean you should break the law, sometimes you just have to say I can’t afford it and follow the rules.
if you can’t afford insurance you can’t afford to drive end of story

 

[F3800RC]

The definition seems pretty clear to me...
cartel
[kärˈtel] NOUN : an association of manufacturers or suppliers with the purpose of maintaining prices at a high level and restricting competition.

and they aren’t doing that . in no way shape or form so get over it . In fact I just had a situation with a property policy worth 300 million that has 10 insurers subscribing on it. They all had different pricing and conditions and the ones who quoted cheaper wanted to match the price of the ones who quoted higher for their part ,but their head offices said no that is collusion so they all had to quote “ best terms “ and live with it. There is no price fixing or restriction of competition

 

[F3800RC]

Do you even understand the definition of Cartel?

If you think it’s a cartel file a complaint with the competition bureau . nothing stopping you or anyone else

Competition Bureau Canada - Home

Competition Bureau Canada - Homepage

www.competitionbureau.gc.ca

 

[TK4]

Can you say afraid any more ...no one is afraid ...do whatever inquiry you or they want
the cost of something doesn’t mean you should break the law, sometimes you just have to say I can’t afford it and follow the rules.
if you can’t afford insurance you can’t afford to drive end of story

I've already sent a letter to my local MPP, the MCC, the CMA and the MMIC asking for just that - we'll see what (if anything) comes of it.

 

[F3800RC]

I've already sent a letter to my local MPP, the MCC, the CMA and the MMIC asking for just that - we'll see what (if anything) comes of it.

File a complaint with the competition bureau please if you believe they are a cartel

here:

Competition Bureau Canada - Home

Competition Bureau Canada - Homepage

www.competitionbureau.gc.ca

 

[ricplayer]

This thread has done nothing other than reinforce my hypothesis of the insurance industry in this province.

Industry insider comes out swinging and refuses to reason or understand the other side of the argument. Seems like there is a lot to protect.

Again, if it’s bad business, they would get out. PR campaigns and media releases do nothing to support the argument as they are veiled attempts to sway public opinion prior to a rate increase application.

Insurance companies are allowed to set rates based on address, age and gender, which would be illegal and could be challenged as a human rights violation, yet our gov allows it to happen.

I couldn’t imagine setting my prices for my customers based on their gender, age or address. Yes palms are being greased, insurance companies are filing their garages and the public getting screwed.

 

[TK4]

If your business is losing money, you must search for efficiencies or close the doors.
If dirty towing companies, ambulance chasing lawyers, storage facilities and repair shops are taking advantage of you, make it stop.
If your customers are disgruntled, find a way to make it clearer to them that you're doing a good job.
Seems simple, doesn't it ?
Now if you'll excuse me, under advice of our resident insurance expert I must go and put my tinfoil hat back on...

 

[F3800RC]

This thread has done nothing other than reinforce my hypothesis of the insurance industry in this province.

Industry insider comes out swinging and refuses to reason or understand the other side of the argument. Seems like there is a lot to protect.

Again, if it’s bad business, they would get out. PR campaigns and media releases do nothing to support the argument as they are veiled attempts to sway public opinion prior to a rate increase application.

Insurance companies are allowed to set rates based on address, age and gender, which would be illegal and could be challenged as a human rights violation, yet our gov allows it to happen.

I couldn’t imagine setting my prices for my customers based on their gender, age or address. Yes palms are being greased, insurance companies are filing their garages and the public getting screwed.

Your post is total nonsense of course. Read..
And if you did read all the posts you would see some are getting out of the business ( AIG completely exited personal insurance in all of Canada ) and many have pulled out of several different areas of insurance.
161 have left Canada or been shut down the last 20 years

161 companies have exited Canadian P&C market in past 20 years, 96% voluntarily: PACICC

Over the past 20 years, 161 different insurance companies have exited the Canadian P&C market, 96% of which were voluntary exits, according to a new report from the Property and Casualty Insurance Compensation Corporation (PACICC). The report, the 11th in…

www.canadianunderwriter.ca

AIG Canada to stop underwriting new individual personal policies

AIG Canada is pulling out of writing personal lines business in Canada. AIG communications director Lynn Woodburn confirmed to Canadian Underwriter Wednesday evening that it would no longer underwrite new policies in personal lines. This confirmed speculation among brokers that…

www.canadianunderwriter.ca

You are free to complain to the competition bureau too

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