Ferguson Missouri

[FiReSTaRT]

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let's keep in mind, all this violence was for a few stolen cigarellos

Bull!!!!! It wasn't "theft", it was a robbery. When the storeowner tried to get Brown to pay before leaving the store, Brown manhandled him out of the way. Classic example of strongarm robbery, which is a violent criminal offence. Had Brown dialed down on the violence against the officer, he would have still been alive at the dawn of a long career in petty crime.

 

[MarcosSantiago]

At the time I don't believe Sgt Wilson even knew about the convenience store robbery.
...

But if I remember correctly, the officer said in his testimony that he knew of the robbery, because of the radio dispatcher annoucement.

And when he saw the box of cigarillos in his hand, he realized that the guy was probably the robbery suspect...


From the transcript:
"When I start looking at Brown, first thing I notice is in his right hand, his hand is full of Cigarillos. And that's when it clicked for me because I now saw the Cigarillos, I looked in my mirror, I did a double check that Johnson was wearing a black shirt, these are the two from the stealing. And they kept walking, as I said, they never once stopped, never got on the sidewalk, they stayed in the middle of the road, radio and Frank 21 is my call sign that day, I said, 'Frank 21 I'm on Canfield with two, send me another car.' "

 

[-D-]

At the time I don't believe Sgt Wilson even knew about the convenience store robbery.

Brown and a friend were walkin down the middle of the street. Wilson in his cruiser came upon them and told them to get off the street (in what exact terms I don't know). Brown said unpleasant things to Wilson, Wilson tried to exit his cruiser but Brown slammed the door shut then assaulted Wilson. Two shots fired, one into Browns hand. Brown started to run and Wilson exited the vehicle to chase.

Another confrontation followed, Brown advanced on Wilson again and Wilson ended it.


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But if I remember correctly, the officer said in his testimony that he knew of the robbery, because of the radio dispatcher annoucement.

And when he saw the box of cigarillos in his hand, he realized that the guy was probably the robbery suspect...


From the transcript:
"When I start looking at Brown, first thing I notice is in his right hand, his hand is full of Cigarillos. And that's when it clicked for me because I now saw the Cigarillos, I looked in my mirror, I did a double check that Johnson was wearing a black shirt, these are the two from the stealing. And they kept walking, as I said, they never once stopped, never got on the sidewalk, they stayed in the middle of the road, radio and Frank 21 is my call sign that day, I said, 'Frank 21 I'm on Canfield with two, send me another car.' "

Are you guys reading the same transcripts?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I accept your apology.
You are not dumb.
As I said, none of us was there.
I was listening to a lawyer on tv referencing that chart and the evidence. He also asked about the 125 yards.

let's keep in mind, all this violence was for a few stolen cigarellos
he ran away from you the first time
did we really need guns blazing
how the hell did he think it would look if he killed the kid....which is what happened and look at the mess
was it worth it?

It started as a "strong-arm robbery", rather than a simple theft, as a civilian was assaulted in the process. It escalated to violently resisting arrest, apparently including an effort to control, or gain possession of an officer's firearm (this, purely from the physical evidence found on and in the cruiser, and on the officer). You can't simply let someone who as committed such violent actions walk (or run) away from it.

As with a situation in which a motorcyclist runs from a simple traffic infraction you have to ask yourself, "Is my life really worth what I'm doing here?"

The more I study this case, the more I think that any outrage is a conflation. As I stated in my previous post this magical "125 yards" (or feet, leagues, miles....) is an invention. In the case of the UK Daily Mail the said that it appeared in the post-verdict press conference, which it clearly does not. It was invented. The distance involved is 150 feet from the cruiser to the point where Brown's body fell, after being shot from something less than 20 feet away. Add perhaps another 30 feet (I don't remember the exact distance from the records) and you have the absolute totality of the area involved in this incident (the point from which Brown turned and started to approach the officer again).

If anyone wants to be outraged then they should save if for the incident in Cincinnati, in which a kid was shot by police so quickly that he had no chance to comply with any possible orders. AND was carrying a toy gun.

 

[Sativa Quemador]

who the hell turns back and charges a cop ?

I will admit i dont know much about this story, i dont know any facts at all

did the cop fire on the dude as he was running away ? is that was this mess is all about ?

if the cop put a bullet in him during a fisticuff/altercation, as soon as the dude took off running, the cop shouldd end pursuit. dudes been shot, he'll need help, nab him later at the hospital.

even if he didnt get shot, as soon as dude ran away, end pursuit, dont pull out a weapon and blast away down the street. its not worth the headache for a box of smokes.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

who the hell turns back and charges a cop ?

I will admit i dont know much about this story, i dont know any facts at all

did the cop fire on the dude as he was running away ? is that was this mess is all about ?

if the cop put a bullet in him during a fisticuff/altercation, as soon as the dude took off running, the cop shouldd end pursuit. dudes been shot, he'll need help, nab him later at the hospital.

even if he didnt get shot, as soon as dude ran away, end pursuit, dont pull out a weapon and blast away down the street. its not worth the headache for a box of smokes.

Brown was 'grazed in the thumb' during the violent altercation with the officer. The officer did not fire again until something roughly like 150 feet further down the street, after a short foot pursuit.

Look at the diagram that I linked to.

 

[MarcosSantiago]

Are you guys reading the same transcripts?

I am indeed referring to the transcript from the court... not sure if Caboose is...

I will admit i dont know much about this story, i dont know any facts at all

For the Coles notes, go here to see the nice pictures, step by step, with links to the testimony of witnesses:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/ferguson-grand-jury-findings/

 

[caboose56]

Are you guys reading the same transcripts?

It's long. I read the 15 or so pages starting with the assault onwards.

I stand corrected regarding the Cigarillos. That must have been prior to the 15 pages I read. I was looking for the details on location and timing of the shots fired.


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[TwistedKestrel]

who the hell turns back and charges a cop ?

A cop who has already fired on you. To me, this is the weirdest part of Wilson's story (true or not). I can see that kind of aggression in someone who is under the influence of/withdrawing from serious **** (not marijuana), that's about it.

 

[MarcosSantiago]

It's long. I read the 15 or so pages starting with the assault onwards.

I stand corrected regarding the Cigarillos. That must have been prior to the 15 pages I read. I was looking for the details on location and timing of the shots fired.

Again, maybe... just maybe... you are right and officer Wilson did not know anyting about the convenience store robbery at the point of the confrontation. Maybe he said he knew, later on when they asked him... just to make his story (about the reason why he stopped them) more credible...

 

[VT1100]

who the hell turns back and charges a cop ?

....

The medical report stated he had 45 nanograms of THC/ml in his blood at the time of autopsy. (pot)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/ferguson-documents/

36.7 nano grams of THC is enough to get someone "baked enough to think that turning the [driving] test into a real-life version of Mario Cart would be a good idea". (regular smoker)

So you can't really look at this from the viewpoint of rational thinking on Browns part.

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2013/02/cnn_high_driving_test_shows_five_nanogram_thc_limi.php

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Again, maybe... just maybe... you are right and officer Wilson did not know anyting about the convenience store robbery at the point of the confrontation. Maybe he said he knew, later on when they asked him... just to make his story (about the reason why he stopped them) more credible...

The implication from his interview was that he didn't make the connection, until he saw the cigarellos. That's when he seemed to notice that the clothing matched the suspect description.

 

[-D-]

I think what most of you are not understanding is not purely the fact about Brown being a good or bad kid.
It's the fact that in that area and many others similar the Cops seem to freely open fire on black people and never charged for it.

I was watching a piece where the father (white) put up billboards 40+ around town showing a gun and a cop saying something like why do they investigate themselves...in that town/states history of 135 or so cop shooting, ALL were found innocent.

They got the Police to agree to an external review panel.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I think what most of you are not understanding is not purely the fact about Brown being a good or bad kid.
It's the fact that in that area and many others similar the Cops seem to freely open fire on black people and never charged for it.

I was watching a piece where the father (white) put up billboards 40+ around town showing a gun and a cop saying something like why do they investigate themselves...in that town/states history of 135 or so cop shooting, ALL were found innocent.

They got the Police to agree to an external review panel.

The expression is "pick your battles." It's also wise to choose your martyrs carefully. In this case the shooting would appear to be justified. Here is their battle:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/inde...ice_officer_who_s.html#incart_related_stories

Watch how quickly the officer exits the car and fires.

 

[-D-]

The expression is "pick your battles." It's also wise to choose your martyrs carefully. In this case the shooting would appear to be justified. Here is their battle:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/inde...ice_officer_who_s.html#incart_related_stories

Watch how quickly the officer exits the car and fires.

Hey, I get it...seems easier to use the case of the kid with a toy gun to make the point.
Either way, sad all the way around...but this won't be the last.

 

[Schneller]

Hey, I get it...seems easier to use the case of the kid with a toy gun to make the point.
Either way, sad all the way around...but this won't be the last.

And it was far from the first.

 

[Macs]

The expression is "pick your battles." It's also wise to choose your martyrs carefully. In this case the shooting would appear to be justified. Here is their battle:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/inde...ice_officer_who_s.html#incart_related_stories

Watch how quickly the officer exits the car and fires.

The dispatcher is at fault on that one. The info related to the cops is "black male brandishing handgun".

Do I question the wisdom of the cop driving? Hell yes, but the cop that shot the kid, nope.

 

[mmmnaked]

Hey, I get it...seems easier to use the case of the kid with a toy gun to make the point.
Either way, sad all the way around...but this won't be the last.

I don't find Brown's death sad at all. Pretty clear to me that the guy was already on the wrong path... **** him. He robbed a store, assaulted a clerk, and then attacked a cop (backed 100% by hard evidence) that's some hardcore thug bs.

 

[-D-]

I don't find Brown's death sad at all. Pretty clear to me that the guy was already on the wrong path... **** him. He robbed a store, assaulted a clerk, and then attacked a cop (backed 100% by hard evidence) that's some hardcore thug bs.

You think stealing cigarellos if hardcore...lol

 

[mmmnaked]

No I think assaulting people and police is hardcore. That's how you get killed. Justice.

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