Feds plan to melt ICE | Page 15 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Feds plan to melt ICE

EV trucks will make sense as a city delivery , tractors and shuttle trucks and parts runners . This is where EV makes sense today . Extended range will get there.
At one point a car was limited to where it could travel because the roads didn’t exist , have patience.
Why do you need a truck for parts? Locally all I see are Prius' etc. with NAPA signage. Something like a small Sprinter van would probably do any of those type of duties. As for tractors, range is going to be an issue for them as well - plenty of tractor work that requires all-day plow work and harvesting work... I don't see that as a great fit for tractors but YMMV.
 
Why do you need a truck for parts? Locally all I see are Prius' etc. with NAPA signage. Something like a small Sprinter van would probably do any of those type of duties. As for tractors, range is going to be an issue for them as well - plenty of tractor work that requires all-day plow work and harvesting work... I don't see that as a great fit for tractors but YMMV.
I think he means tractors as in tractor trailers. Driving from the GTA warehouse to a few grocery stores and back for the night is an EV friendly cycle. Farm tractors are a terrible fit as they are like boats with constant high horsepower demand and little opportunity for regen.
 
There is a procedure to collect the gold from circuit boards but it's a complex process*

* location dependent.

FTFY

waste1.jpg
 
I think he means tractors as in tractor trailers. Driving from the GTA warehouse to a few grocery stores and back for the night is an EV friendly cycle. Farm tractors are a terrible fit as they are like boats with constant high horsepower demand and little opportunity for regen.
Both reasonable points, I think we're on the same page then.
 
I honestly couldn't bear to read through the whole 14 page thread, but I have an opinion on the EV as a work vehicle and/or truck.

Here goes, lifted from a post I made on Facebook.

A 100kph range from full on a F150 Lightning with a 5000lb trailer is 130km but that's right to fully dead, you couldn't do that. It takes 45 minutes with the fastest charging stations to get to 80% and about the same for the last 20%. Since highways don't do any regenerative braking, your range drops significantly from what's claimed which is why we're going with independent testing. It keeps getting worse because if it's cold your range will drop further. So, 100km is your white-knuckle range, 80km is probably more realistic for each stop to charge. That's right, 80km. This is from real-world testing done by reviewers, not claimed by Ford. If you want to go right until the battery is dead, that's on you.

So, you're looking at maybe 80km before you need to recharge, this time of year given that you're probably hauling on a highway and not through a city with regenerative braking. At best. There's not going to be fast charging that predictable or always free to use. Or working. Say hello again to white knuckles.

My diesel will pull my trailer with 5 bikes and 4 guys for 600km at 125kph where it likes to tow (I could save fuel by also dropping to 100kph). It takes 5 minutes to fill. Turn on the heated seats and crank the heat... no problems. Loaded that's 17,000lbs gross, the trailer with the bikes is approximately 7,000lbs + four 200lb (average) guys + gear + spare fuel + 200lb 140cc bike + 7,800lb diesel truck.

Let's math this real quick:

Provided you NEVER have to drive more than a minute off the highway (yahrite), and we don't count any washroom time or food gathering time, you can make the trip to Deal's Gap with my truck, from my door, in about 16 hours at an gross average rate of 100kph (real speed is mostly around 125kph but there are exceptions for states like Penn. which are marked 90kph for long periods of time and we slow down to maybe 105, plus our stops). We stop every 400km because that's 4 hours of driving each and the last stop is in Robbinsville to make sure we have plenty of fuel in her... note we stop mostly out of convenience, there is usually 1/4 tank left at each stop, so no white-knuckle worrying about fuel. Cost: around $550 USD round-trip including some trips to the town from our house for groceries etc.

Note: I used gross average speed because I do this every year, so I have the data. We do actually keep track, to split the costs etc.

Now let's do the EV truck... keeping in mind that it's cool in April all the way to Virginia and that my trailer is about 7,000lbs with the bikes + another 1,000lbs for us, gear and we'll even skip on the KXL for the hell of it. Range is a big question but we'll go with the above, about 100km before your knuckles start to creak.

Now you're going to have to depend on a fast charging network being available every 80-100km and fully available, and working, and not occupied. So let's! An 80% charge will take you about 45 minutes and a 100% charge will take another 45 minutes. Not sure what the strategy is but if you go to 80% now you're going to have to stop every 60-80km and if you go with 100% charge you're going to stop 80-100km away. Make your choice. Let's go with 100% and throw away any time spent getting off the highway to the charger. 100kph to keep your range reasonable is going to net you a lower average even for the on-road driving. So, that's, let's say, average of 80km before stopping and 1.5 hours per charge, I'll spot you 15 minutes if you really want but I'm already being kind to the F150 Lightning for range considering temperatures and mountains!

So, 1600km/80km = 20 stops. Oof. Giving the absolute MAXIMUM 100kph rate, that's 16 hours of driving, and 30 hours of charging. So again, ignoring any other time-robbing things including the time taken to drive off the highway to a charging station or looking for one, we come up with 36 hours to get there. There's at least a whole day out of your riding time in the mountains, you're going to arrive exhausted and ****** off, then you're going to have to leave a day early and go through the whole torturous experience again. As for costs, I'm told that the cost of each full charge will be a minimum of $35 USD but I'm sure it varies and I do not have direct experience with charging prices.

And that's why EV trucks make no @#$% sense if you're going to use them - you know - as trucks.
The heavy stuff is worse. I've mentioned before my neighbour is a fleet manager and was asked to price e-delivery trucks for propane. The basic chassis is 3X the price of diesel and because the PTO uses so much power they'd need twice as many trucks and drivers.

EV's are good for some applications right now and proponents are leveraging that to say better batteries are coming. Better charging systems are coming. That doesn't help the guy that has to get the job done now.

Power In = Power Out X efficiency

To fully charge a dead 100 Kw battery takes an input of 100 Kw at 100% efficiency. I don't know the efficiency of a charging system. Even at 100% efficiency the time to charge is directly related to the input power.

If it takes 2 hours to charge a battery at 40 Amps and you want it done in an hour the input current needs to be double. Buy bigger wires all the way to the generating station.

A 15 amp 120 volt receptacle is limited at 1.5 Kw. That means fully charging a 100Kw Battery will take 67 hours

A 40 amp circuit should be run at 80% so 32 amps at 240 volts = 7.68 Kw per hour 100 Kw divided by 7.68 = 13 hours
100 Kw at $0.15 / Kw = $ 15 fill up.

What's harder on EV range? Air Conditioning in the summer or heat in the winter.
 
Yes tractor as in truck tractor, at work we call them power units , but if I type power unit nobody knows what I’m talking about .

At last falls conference for lease finances , it was all EV city buses , shuttles and EV Municipal trucks .
Oddly the police vehicles will be the hardest to sort out , they need an impact resistance that isn’t there yet . And they lsit and idle for hrs . AC on , windows down, batteries don’t like that


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
 
What's harder on EV range? Air Conditioning in the summer or heat in the winter.
For most EV's heat is far worse. A few EV's use heat pumps so theoretically A/C or heat are similar draw but afaik, most have design quirks (eg using the battery as the heat sink) that mean you are using resistance heat much of the time in the winter so you are back to square one at higher cost.
 
Electric gurus. My new electric trials bike will be able to do a one day trial. But if i do a 2 day i will need to top up. What size generator will i need?
 
Electric gurus. My new electric trials bike will be able to do a one day trial. But if i do a 2 day i will need to top up. What size generator will i need?
Dunno. How many kwh is battery? What charge current/voltage can it accept? How long are you willing to leave the generator on?

The answers to those questions will help but I will be shocked if a 2kw generator doesn't charge it in less than 8 hours.

EDIT:
Mecatecno Dragonfly? Battery is 1.875 kWh. They say 2.5 hours to recharge. It looks like small battery size limits the rate so even a 1kW generator should be sufficient and you need to give it 2.5 hours. I would hope you get a 120V charger. Pics I have seen were 240V charger which would push you to a far larger generator (and just generally be a pain in the ass). Charger output is 760 watts. Charger input won't be grossly over that (definitely sub 1000 watts).
 
Last edited:
Ford Lightning should do the trick.
I would LOVE the Ford Lightning.

Maybe it's me getting older, but I'm liking the look of trucks more and more. Plus the whole 'safety' thing as they're higher up, and more beefy than my Volt / GTI.

This is why that stupid Maverick Hybrid keeps popping up on my vehicle feed. The Lightning is so far out of reach financially I don't even bother.
 
How about this

"use the right tool for the job"

For my daily driver, an EV car works great. I just got back from a run up to Hockley to have lunch. Started at 80%. GOM still says I have half left.

For longer trips, as a car, it works fine. My particular one is not ideal because of the slow fast-charging speed but it will do it, and mine is getting towards decade-old technology inside. Mild amount of trip-planning is needed, that will diminish over time as the fast-charging networks build out. In another month or so I'll be able to use Tesla Superchargers if I wanted to ... although I'll continue using CCS, and charging elsewhere even if I end up buying an adapter, in the interest of not giving Elon Musk one red US cent of my money.

I still have combustion-engine motorcycles because nobody has done it right and put it on the market yet. I think available tech is sufficient for a street bike, although perhaps barely so, but it isn't on the market yet. (Zero motorcycles have come a long way but STILL don't have DC fast-charging. WHY??? And Kawasaki's first effort is lame.)

I still have a combustion-engine van. Available tech is pretty close but the right combination is not on the market yet. The Mercedes eSprinter, aside from being really expensive, comes closest. 113 kWh battery capacity, 400ish km range. But only 50 kW DC fast-charging. In this day and age ... WHY??? The electric Transit is marketed only for short-haul and only has a 68kWh battery (barely more than my Bolt has). Promaster same situation, 79 kWh, still not enough. A consumer version of the GM BrightDrop could be interesting as even the smaller one is bigger than my van inside.

Heavy long-haul towing is not suitable for all-electric yet and it is not covered under the EV changeover plan, which is for light-duty vehicles only!

As for deals gap trips and track-day trips ... for me ... van with bikes inside is better than pickup truck with trailer. And this is how they do this in Europe, where there are vans everywhere, and very few pickup trucks.
 
Post a picture of the charger data plate and how big is the battery. A 2000 w inverter on the rav will be quieter and cheaper.

Sent from the future
You'd definitely have to leave it running. A starting battery has less than a kwh. If I guessed his bike correctly, bike battery is just under 2 kwh and charges in about 2.5 hours. Charger puts out 780 watts.

EDIT:
Here is pic I found. Hopefully NA bikes get a 120V charger.

311000D3.jpg
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom