federal election - who are you voting for

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jc100 said:
..lets also add the Chinese millionaires buying properties in BC and avoiding paying any taxes by nefarious means too. This is all about optics...if the general public see one rule for one type of citizen and another for others than they get disillusioned pretty quickly. The worst case scenario is that you then get a society who habitually defaults on taxes like in Greece...the mentality is "they don't pay, why should I?" and you can see what happens next as part of the fallout from that.

Cleaning up the tax laws would be a good start.
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This I agree with. There's plenty of foreigners buying and flipping properties with ZERO tax paid to our own country and they're allowed to get away with this. Why?

While we're at it I'd like to see how we can look into how many people/contractors are buying and flipping houses because grandma / aunt / cousin / dog lives there for a year or two only to flip with zero tax paid because it was a 'primary' residence.

If that doesn't happen, someone tell me how to buy and flip properties without paying tax so I can get in on the action!
 
jc100 said:
Cleaning up the tax laws would be a good start.
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Never going to happen. They will always going to be asking for more.
Cleaning up tax laws would result in 1000s of public servants, lawyers, lobbyists, and accountants being left destitute on the streets (mostly in Toronto).
So will a tax revolt. So which is more likely?
 
Lower taxes from 50% to 7%, live out of country for 6 months + 1 day should clean up the mess we're in.
 
eljay said:
Never going to happen. They will always going to be asking for more.
Cleaning up tax laws would result in 1000s of public servants, lawyers, lobbyists, and accountants being left destitute on the streets (mostly in Toronto).
So will a tax revolt. So which is more likely?
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Which is more desirable.
 
eljay said:
Don't forget that all of the union pension funds plus the CPP are massively invested in the largest corporations, not just in Canada but globally, and on both sides of the balance sheet. Killing corporate profits will kill pensions, end of line.

Just as an example, here's the link to OPSEU's top holdings.
https://www.optrust.com/investments/significant-investments.asp

Top 3 are hundreds of millions invested in the equity of banks. Go look at fixed income. Hundreds more in debt loaned.
Who wants the banks to pay their "fair share"? You want your pension to exist when you retire?

This is just one union pension in just Ontario. There's much more where that came from.
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Good point. My wife is a teacher and her retirement is being funded in large part by Bell Canada.
 
nfq said:
What needs to be scrutinized and audited is HOW the money is getting spent that's coming in. Budgeting has always been simple. Make more or spend less, to make things work. Trying to find new ways to generate revenue for the government will eventually reach a boiling point.
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Really good point. There are no checks and balances until we get blind sided by an auditors report, then its too late and and billion dollars is down the drain.

I don't know but would government not have to follow the same accounting and filing procedures as industry? My next door neighbour is the Comptroller at GM Oshawa and they know the cost of every nut and bolt on a car and have to account for it all. Even the stuff that walks out the back door:)

They have the ability for forecast exactly what and how much they will need for the next for the next quarter, year, etc.

The government just doesn't seem to have that level of insite.
 
j2 said:
You guys may think I've over reacting but this is the end for Canada. He's going to cause a recession, the $ will be worthless and his divisive policies towards Alberta and the west will see them separating. There was already a grass root effort under Harper, this will push the issue. Canada, or what's left of it, will be a very different place in 4 years.

I'm in Whitby and you want to see what we elected. She has the IQ of a 10lb bag of nails.

Regardless. I just resigned from the Liberal party and you are looking at the newest member of the NDP :) Most liberal strategists already left a year ago and joined the NDP.
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I wholeheartedly agree with your first sentence that you are overreacting, but that's the only one. What is the grass root effort under Harper you speak of? ... Patrick Brown effort?? Where was this guy when the feds needed him to thump the PC drumbeat in Ontario. I guess they chose Fords ... I cannot still believe I am typing this.

I surely do hope that Canada will be a very different place in 4 years in certain areas. Different people have different priorities, so you should not be surprised about that. People care and not care about different things.

I could find you a dumb candidate in every party, actually I can find a few in the outgoing government ... not really difficult as you can imagine.

The NDP party will definitely need a lot of your help, they seem to be lost in universe ... poor JL.
 
j2 said:
I don't know but would government not have to follow the same accounting and filing procedures as industry? My next door neighbour is the Comptroller at GM Oshawa and they know the cost of every nut and bolt on a car and have to account for it all. Even the stuff that walks out the back door:)
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The P&L statements are not exactly comparable when you take a look at government and private corporations financial records ..... they exist for very different reasons as you know whether you agree with their actions or not.
 
jc100 said:
Yes...but you're not a large multinational with presence globally and using that corporate structure to avoid totally paying taxes in one country a la Starbucks or GE for example. While those exact scenarios might not have played out in Canada similar loopholes allow for funneling of cash out the country in the name of profit. While legal it doesn't really smack of being a decent corporate citizen to do so and if your average Joe on the street sees the big boys doing it with millions then Joe on the street is going to feel a bit ****** off come tax return time. To state that this doesn't happen is also naïve.
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Well, if you can show me how to do it we'll skim 2 million off the top, split it, buy a couple of BMW's and do the long way round :)

Seriously, I can understand how this may happen a third world country. I've been offered and asked for bribes in places like Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, etc. I'm not saying their morals are looser so no offence to anyone, I'm just saying that its so unregulated that they can get away with it.

In North America and Western Europe, I can't see how I could skim off the top. If I were dealing 100% cash, maybe but its all paper and wire transfer. Every incoming and outgoing transaction we do over $5k is logged and reconciled with the CRA.

My son works a couple of nights a week at Milestones. He's skimming more in unreported tips that I could ever hope to hide.
 
Delboy said:
Well, if you can show me how to do it we'll skim 2 million off the top, split it, buy a couple of BMW's and do the long way round :)

Seriously, I can understand how this may happen a third world country. I've been offered and asked for bribes in places like Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, etc. I'm not saying their morals are looser so no offence to anyone, I'm just saying that its so unregulated that they can get away with it.

In North America and Western Europe, I can't see how I could skim off the top. If I were dealing 100% cash, maybe but its all paper and wire transfer. Every incoming and outgoing transaction we do over $5k is logged and reconciled with the CRA.

My son works a couple of nights a week at Milestones. He's skimming more in unreported tips that I could ever hope to hide.
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How about the Netherlands and Luxembourg? From the BBC today http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34591476
 
eljay said:
"Starbucks and Fiat Chrysler have been told they must pay back up to €30m (£22m) in taxes after European tax breaks were ruled illegal."

So how'd they get away with it? Your link says they got caught.
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Before they were caught they were getting away with it.
 
jc100 said:
How about the Netherlands and Luxembourg? From the BBC today http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34591476
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Exactly my point. They got caught. How do you go it with out getting caught? The original premise was that $8bn was being laundered by Canadian companies without paying taxes and no-one could stop them or find it.

The CRA forced us to refile this year as our CFO screwed up and there was $120 dollars difference between total assets, and total liabilities and equity. $120!!! That is a true story.

I'm sure if they notice $120 missing they will definitely notice $1,000,000 if it disappears. And that $120 was a paper error, and it wasn't even missing, it was an asset

And we do have offices in Sydney, Hong Kong and Soho in the UK and have to conform to the same standards. If anything, I would say its a higher standard in Hong Kong as they can't be seen to be complicit in fraud. It would ruin them.

I'll ask our CFO as he worked for 25 years for CRA but I'm pretty sure they are better than that. You will get caught. maybe not this year but definitely next year. The balance sheet we submit to the CRA has current year, last year and the 4 previous years. If net income/loss, retained earnings deficit-start or total retaining earnings doesn't match over that last couple of years there is something seriously wrong
 
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Here's the thing though, they may have been caught but strictly speaking in some of these cases they are working to an interpretation of tax law that is strictly legal. The intent of the laws are not followed at all though and that's why there needs to be a major overhaul in some of these cases, the losers are always the countries and hence the citizens, of the places the corporations operate. To be honest, for many of these cases I don't fault the corporations except for possible practices not becoming of a corporate citizen.
 
jc100 said:
Here's the thing though, they may have been caught but strictly speaking in some of these cases they are working to an interpretation of tax law that is strictly legal. The intent of the laws are not followed at all though and that's why there needs to be a major overhaul in some of these cases, the losers are always the countries and hence the citizens, of the places the corporations operate. To be honest, for many of these cases I don't fault the corporations except for possible practices not becoming of a corporate citizen.
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Then you need to address the law. If its ambiguous people, regardless if they are corporate or private citizens will err on their side.
 
Now I agree with you. Now how to punish politicians for the losses they caused? Surely golden pensions for life and severances when they lose elections are punitive enough?

jc100 said:
Here's the thing though, they may have been caught but strictly speaking in some of these cases they are working to an interpretation of tax law that is strictly legal. The intent of the laws are not followed at all though and that's why there needs to be a major overhaul in some of these cases, the losers are always the countries and hence the citizens, of the places the corporations operate. To be honest, for many of these cases I don't fault the corporations except for possible practices not becoming of a corporate citizen.
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backmarkerducati said:
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/politics/story/1.3257994

Harper government partnered with industry group battling CRA over KPMG case
Minister touted 'collaboration' with CPA Canada as group readied to fight tax agency on principle

That's how!
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Well. You're talking about the CPA lobby group. This group has been around since the 1970's. My Uncle was the first CPA chair and its been around under successive livberal and tory governments. Jean C. was a big proponent.

And as clearly stared in the article, the investigation in to KMPG is ongoing. As I said, you will get caught.

The CBC have a dog in this fight though as the CRTC are removing CBC News Net from the basic cable tier next year so that's a ton of revenue gone from the must carry. Mulcair said he would restore it.

I'm actually very much against this lobby though. I want my accountant to be independent. The main reason for me is not fear of the accounting profession influencing government and government policy, they should take input from all sides of the community and interested parties.

The challenge becomes optics. If, for example. the CRA and my Accounting firm have to go to court, that boundary between has to be very clear and un-opaque. There can't be a hint of impropriety.

You can clearly see the problem with the CBC implying that there is impropriety, although they don't come flat out and say it. If you read that story it seems like this is a brand new group just set up by in 2014 Harper to get a bunch of tax evaders off the hook, In fact that group has been around for 40 years. They redid the last agreement in 2002 with Jean C. when he was revamping the tax laws.

BTW. I find this a good read. http://mattforney.com/destroy-someones-reputation-google/

Most journalists are probably guilty of this one time or another.
 
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Delboy said:
Exactly my point. They got caught. How do you go it with out getting caught? The original premise was that $8bn was being laundered by Canadian companies without paying taxes and no-one could stop them or find it.

The CRA forced us to refile this year as our CFO screwed up and there was $120 dollars difference between total assets, and total liabilities and equity. $120!!! That is a true story.

I'm sure if they notice $120 missing they will definitely notice $1,000,000 if it disappears. And that $120 was a paper error, and it wasn't even missing, it was an asset

And we do have offices in Sydney, Hong Kong and Soho in the UK and have to conform to the same standards. If anything, I would say its a higher standard in Hong Kong as they can't be seen to be complicit in fraud. It would ruin them.

I'll ask our CFO as he worked for 25 years for CRA but I'm pretty sure they are better than that. You will get caught. maybe not this year but definitely next year. The balance sheet we submit to the CRA has current year, last year and the 4 previous years. If net income/loss, retained earnings deficit-start or total retaining earnings doesn't match over that last couple of years there is something seriously wrong
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If it's out $120, that might be from one transaction, or it might be from a thousand or more.

I'm not sure what else to put, except that if your balance sheets don't add up, I wouldn't expect you to be in business very long.
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