Explosion at US-Canada border | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Explosion at US-Canada border

I was just thinking about that. What are your options for a modern runaway vehicle? Like I'm a poor. The car I drive has a mechanical parking brake, clutch, manual transmission, old fashioned key. My (non destructive) options:
-Put transmission in neutral
-Depress clutch
-Engage service brake
-Engage parking brake
-Turn off ignition (still retains control of vehicle, steering lock is a separate switch position)

In a modern car with throttle-by-wire (possibly brake-by-wire) stepping on the brakes is supposed to automatically command the throttle closed, right? I suppose the throttle servo could be stuck open. Does pressing the start/stop button do anything while the car is in motion? It looks like the Continental GT has a traditional console shifter, but does it respect a command to shift into neutral while power is being applied?

Also interestingly, my father's car had an issue with the throttle body last year (drive by wire). The car was EXTREMELY unhappy about this, went into a very sad limp mode where it basically let you pull off the road and that's it. And that makes sense to me, I would agree that it's an unsafe condition.
 
backmarkerducati said:
Even cars at this power level the brakes have more stopping power than the engine has go power, assuming the brakes are in good working order... But you may get a huge burnout... Of course the brakes could be overheated, fade, etc. but not likely enough in a one off like this.

One of the causes for unintended acceleration is pedals shifted to the left (to clear a larger centre transmission tunnel or console) causing user error/confusion when switching between cars. People push the gas pedal thinking it is the brake. When the car speeds up they push the "brake" harder (well what they think is the brake).

I have never done exactly this but I have hit the fat brake pedal driving an unfamiliar automatic rental car, thinking it was the clutch....
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Yup, I remember reports of bent accelerator pedals were found during the investigation.
 
TwistedKestrel said:
I was just thinking about that. What are your options for a modern runaway vehicle? Like I'm a poor. The car I drive has a mechanical parking brake, clutch, manual transmission, old fashioned key. My (non destructive) options:
-Put transmission in neutral
-Depress clutch
-Engage service brake
-Engage parking brake
-Turn off ignition (still retains control of vehicle, steering lock is a separate switch position)

In a modern car with throttle-by-wire (possibly brake-by-wire) stepping on the brakes is supposed to automatically command the throttle closed, right? I suppose the throttle servo could be stuck open. Does pressing the start/stop button do anything while the car is in motion? It looks like the Continental GT has a traditional console shifter, but does it respect a command to shift into neutral while power is being applied?

Also interestingly, my father's car had an issue with the throttle body last year (drive by wire). The car was EXTREMELY unhappy about this, went into a very sad limp mode where it basically let you pull off the road and that's it. And that makes sense to me, I would agree that it's an unsafe condition.
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Dodge has gotten some heat for their "modern" transmission controls that are unituitive and not as good as a console shifter than can be pushed forward to get neutral.

Not many cars have a clutch the driver gets to control anymore.

Service brakes are huge and should easily overpower the engine. Even if you did things wrong and were gentle with them for a bit, I doubt you could get them to fade in a single event.

Parking brake is probably electronic and I would be surprised if it put up much of a fight against the engine (and if it was strong enough to lock the rear wheels, that would be a handful at 100+ mph).

I can't imagine this is anything other than pushbutton start. Button does nothing when you are in motion on most vehicles.

VAG cars normally have throttle by wire and pressing brake cuts throttle however you can convince it to have throttle and brake active at the same time. I can't remember exactly but I think if you stay on brake, lift off gas and reapply gas, you are then allowed throttle and brake simultaneously until you get off brakes and reset everything.

No idea about transmission logic. It will be shift by wire. For safety, it should listen without thinking. My VAG car will shift to neutral with power applied (if you think you are in "manual" and you are not, pushing forward to grab the next gear gets you neutral).
 
That car most certainly has an accelerator interlock to the brake pedal that works the same as it does on other VW Group cars made in the last couple decades (and I've owned one ... although a much lower-level one than this). If it receives a brake input while accelerator input is non-zero (i.e. you step on the brake pedal after stepping on the accelerator pedal - or if the accelerator pedal is mechanically blocked from returning back to zero), it cuts engine power output (drops engine to idle). The brake pedal switch has redundant circuits, making it very unlikely for this system to fail.

But ... People commonly freak out in emergency situations. "OMG the car is accelerating and I don't know what to do" so they do nothing. The accelerator-brake interlock can't work if the driver never presses the brake pedal. And that car under discussion here is capable of accelerating HARD, therefore capable of getting drivers in trouble in a big hurry. edit to address a point in a simul-post: This is of no help in a driver pedal-error situation, in which they are flooring the accelerator thinking that they are stepping on the brake pedal. Only thing in the electronics to address that, is the data-log in the ECU which is what will prove that this is what the driver did (after they are dead).

Automatic emergency braking isn't reliable enough to be counted on. It doesn't take much searching to find incidents of cars phantom-braking for no reason (or because the car is reacting to something it shouldn't), so these systems are all nerfed in an attempt to balance the incidents of phantom-braking for no reason with the incidents of not braking when it should.
 
Brian P said:
. It doesn't take much searching to find incidents of cars phantom-braking for no reason (or because the car is reacting to something it shouldn't), so these systems are all nerfed in an attempt to balance the incidents of phantom-braking for no reason with the incidents of not braking when it should.
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I had a subaru rental with eyesight aeb. So so dangerous and I would never buy a car with that system. Going through the mountains in the left lane coming up to a left corner with a transport in the right lane and it threw out the anchor. Full abs at highway speed. Completely ignored gas pedal. When it got down to 30 or so, it gave me back control. If there had been anyone behind me, they would have run me over as the behaviour was so unexpected and unnecessary.

Rental ford with aeb coming up to a light that had turned green with traffic accelerating, it beeped and flashed a red dash light but didn't enter braking.
 
TwistedKestrel said:
I was just thinking about that. What are your options for a modern runaway vehicle? Like I'm a poor. The car I drive has a mechanical parking brake, clutch, manual transmission, old fashioned key. My (non destructive) options:
-Put transmission in neutral
-Depress clutch
-Engage service brake
-Engage parking brake
-Turn off ignition (still retains control of vehicle, steering lock is a separate switch position)

In a modern car with throttle-by-wire (possibly brake-by-wire) stepping on the brakes is supposed to automatically command the throttle closed, right? I suppose the throttle servo could be stuck open. Does pressing the start/stop button do anything while the car is in motion? It looks like the Continental GT has a traditional console shifter, but does it respect a command to shift into neutral while power is being applied?

Also interestingly, my father's car had an issue with the throttle body last year (drive by wire). The car was EXTREMELY unhappy about this, went into a very sad limp mode where it basically let you pull off the road and that's it. And that makes sense to me, I would agree that it's an unsafe condition.
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Neutral is always an option. Then there's throwing it in "Park" for an automatic or sequential transmission.

My KTM has a rising and hanging idle problem. Normal idle is 1400, but it pretty quickly increases to 2000, then eventually 3000, and even sometimes over 4000. Killing the engine returns it to 1400 RPM until the cycle repeats. Took me by surprise the first time. I still need to diagnose, but have been living with it for the few rides I've done on it so far between all the maintenance to get it ship-shape. Forums say it's commonly caused by a bad TPS sending confusing data to the ECU which then adjusts the throttle stop to the wrong position. I can't imagine if it had ride-by-wire throttle and it was more than just the idle being affected!
 
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The police are saying don't hold your breath waiting for a definative report.

Was it a car or driver issue?

Car: I have insufficient knowledge as to what mechanical or contol inputs would have caused or allowed this to happen. Input welcome.

Driver: Several scenarios

Murder suicide? IMO that's a stretch, trying to envision the outcome. Straight into an abutment would be more guaranteed.

Medical event? I sat in my SUV with the engine off and tried to imagine what would cause that level of accelerator pressure.

I've had kidney stones but they took a few minutes to grow to intense pain, enough to allow for pulling over. They tended to make me double over not flatten out. A kick in the groin would be similar.

I've never had a heart attack so can't comment.

DUI: Any video of them leaving the casino full blotto? How did they get out of the parking lot if they were 100% tanked?

I knew a guy that had his bowel rupture at work. Instant zero to ten on the pain scale.

Panic? Who was driving and were they taking over for the first time and panicked when the car did a glitch? My wife freezes when things go wrong.

Sad whatever the cause. RIP X 2.
 
nobbie48 said:
Car: I have insufficient knowledge as to what mechanical or contol inputs would have caused or allowed this to happen. Input welcome.
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I think the current FBI explanation is the gas pedal on the car stuck. The car was a 2022 model and there was a recall on previous models because the gas pedal stuck.
Remember the Toyotas with the sticky gas pedals? Same deal. On new EFI car/trucks the gas pedal is just a variable resistor that drives the ECU.
The driver nailed the throttle and it stuck wide open... with 600 horsepower
 
bitzz said:
I think the current FBI explanation is the gas pedal on the car stuck. The car was a 2022 model and there was a recall on previous models because the gas pedal stuck.
Remember the Toyotas with the sticky gas pedals? Same deal. On new EFI car/trucks the gas pedal is just a variable resistor that drives the ECU.
The driver nailed the throttle and it stuck wide open... with 600 horsepower
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It's sad that people don't know enough to adjust their floor mat to ensure the gas pedal doesn't get stuck under it. I've seen it so many times on other peoples' cars, not just the recalled ones.
 
nobbie48 said:
A U.S. businessman seeking the Republican presidential nomination used the incident, during an appearance on Fox News, to promote an aspect of his platform: Building a border wall with Canada.


Seriously? A trillion dollar wall to twart a once a century attack by a flying Bentley?
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Which was already stopped by existing infrastructure. And, in this case, it was trying to get out of the US. Afaik, even republicans haven't been dumb enough yet to say the wall is to keep people trapped in their cesspool.
 
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