deny, defend,depose
- Thread starter woot
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Defined by cold war propaganda BS; communism is a political system
Karl Marx, the guy that envisioned modern communism, thought it was an economic system.
Socialism is political, communism is economic.
In Karl Marx communism: the worker owns his productivity. In capitalism the employer owns the worker's productivity.
A condo corp is communist. a Co op is communism.
Paying taxes is socialist.
We got the current definition of "Pinko Commies" from the military industrial complex so you didn't mind them spending 10% of your income on the military. Currently Russia is spending 30% of their economy on their military... doesn't sound terribly communal to me
We have never seen a "communist". No nation has got that far. Cuba got the closest. Communism doesn't seem to work at the national level... works on paper, but people screw it up.
There was never a war of economic systems
Karl Marx, the guy that envisioned modern communism, thought it was an economic system.
Socialism is political, communism is economic.
In Karl Marx communism: the worker owns his productivity. In capitalism the employer owns the worker's productivity.
A condo corp is communist. a Co op is communism.
Paying taxes is socialist.
We got the current definition of "Pinko Commies" from the military industrial complex so you didn't mind them spending 10% of your income on the military. Currently Russia is spending 30% of their economy on their military... doesn't sound terribly communal to me
We have never seen a "communist". No nation has got that far. Cuba got the closest. Communism doesn't seem to work at the national level... works on paper, but people screw it up.
There was never a war of economic systems
Mad Mike
Well-known member
It’s actually both. Communism encompasses ideas about how societies should be governed (political) and how resources should be distributed (economic).
The worker owns the means of production, not productivity (productivity is a measure of relative efficiency). It means he has a share of the factory/land/resource AND a share of the profits or losses.
In capitalism, the employer owns the output be it profit or loss.
Representative democracy. Not communist.
Yes.
Not exclusively. It’s socialist when used to redistribute wealth (Carbon tax, health care, child tax credits).
In a capitalist system, taxes are used to provide things necessary for a free market economy. Things like public infrastructure, security, and safety nets EI and CPP.
Most western economies are mixed, with taxes used for socialist and market purposes.
True. Like many things that require people to cooperate, scaling and principles of equality don’t play well.
Yes, there have been lots. The difference is they are not settled with military force.
Napoleonic wars, the Cold War, OPEC Oil Embargo and the present US-China Trade War are all economic wars.
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I thought that the "planned economy" vs "market economy" was a real sticking point.
In russia this planned economy created a market for burned out light bulbs and used cars were worth more than new, no wonder it was a tough slog.
There are lot of people looking for the guy. Some to arrest him and others to offer him a job.
Apparently Thompson made millions selling off all his company stock prior to the Senate going after them and it taking a hit.
The Hutterites religious group are communal. Everyone works on the farm. Everyone eats in the same mess hall. Everyone gets clean clothes.
The profit from the crops goes into the Hutterite coffers. No one (Theoretically) has a personal bank account. Anyone is free to leave anytime with just the shirt on their back.
The farms are very profitable and use the money to buy more land and equipment.
Needless to say they don't have a lot of new recruits.
It isn't all bad if you're an elder with the power to control the masses.
Are there improprieties? Not according to the decision making elders.
If I leave with nothing, that's a sad version of communal. I don't have a share, I am allowed to exist at the whim of others.
Wrong thread?As always, follow the money.
D'oh.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
The top personal security company in the USA has been inundated with CEO protection requests. (Lots of stuff about it in Google)
Billions of people around the world would find it wonderful to have a warm bed, good food and clean clothes.
Charlie Munger had a YouTube piece about greed not being the problem but rather it being envy.
So there you are, living on a farm in northern Saskatchewan warm, well fed and married to your most distant cousin (A problem when outsiders are rare). Then you see someone else ride by on a nice bike and your mind says "That looks like fun" Envy?
P.S. I suspect Charlie and his buddy Warren have made a few billion on people envying others.
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Shaman
Well-known member
How it actually worked out: they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work.
Nope. Social services are not socialism. They're a communal good paid for by the commune who made the money via some form of capitalist productivity. In actual socialism, the services would be made available by the govt. and people would work in them and accept their share of whatever dismal allowance the government had to give them at the end of the day.
Exactly. Social services such as infrastructure. Even social services can become too expensive, however.
Nope. Socialism is when the country controls the means of production. With an iron fist, like communism.
TK4
Well-known member
The quickest path to the denial of common social services is to underfund them (see: the current state of schools, hospitals, health care, transit, infrastructure, etc. in Ontario) then throw up your hands and say private industry can do it better, faster and cheaper.
It can't, won't, and has no incentive to.
It's lead us to the short term thinking of most governments over the last 40 years - both Liberal and Conservative. Harris didn't have sell the 407, Wynne didn't have to close the powerplants, Doug doesn't have to do whatever the f**k it is that he's doing (please explain it to me if you can) - they all claim it's for the sake of the bottom line and it ends up costing more money in the long run (LRT anyone ?).
The wild west show that is health care south of the border proves that if you've got the dough, you get the care otherwise you're S.O.L. and at the mercy of the 'free market' insurance providers. Not to justify in any way the gunning down of the CEO, but there are a lot of p*ssed off people out there.
As I suggested earlier in this thread I wouldn't be at all shocked to find out this was a contract hit, in which case the chance of finding the shooter gets dimmer and dimmer every day...
It can't, won't, and has no incentive to.
It's lead us to the short term thinking of most governments over the last 40 years - both Liberal and Conservative. Harris didn't have sell the 407, Wynne didn't have to close the powerplants, Doug doesn't have to do whatever the f**k it is that he's doing (please explain it to me if you can) - they all claim it's for the sake of the bottom line and it ends up costing more money in the long run (LRT anyone ?).
The wild west show that is health care south of the border proves that if you've got the dough, you get the care otherwise you're S.O.L. and at the mercy of the 'free market' insurance providers. Not to justify in any way the gunning down of the CEO, but there are a lot of p*ssed off people out there.
As I suggested earlier in this thread I wouldn't be at all shocked to find out this was a contract hit, in which case the chance of finding the shooter gets dimmer and dimmer every day...
TK4
Well-known member
Last I heard they had a 'person of interest' in custody but not arrested - caught in a McDonald's in Pennsylvania. That's been upgraded ?
