Daily sports car?

[daisoman]

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Since I buy my cars pre owned I really hope you rich folk are still buying manuals. Or I'm never trading in my manual GTI. Saving up for a s2000 and also need to add another garage lol

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[Relax]

I honestly wouldn't know and don't care. I stopped watching F1 in like 2007.

Since when is an F1 car a sports car? That would be a race car...

LOL. My point is that a dual clutch transmission IS a manual and you still have full control. You just shift it with paddles instead of a gated lever. So if you miss that lever, that's personal preference.

 

[Lightcycle]

LOL. My point is that a dual clutch transmission IS a manual and you still have full control. You just shift it with paddles instead of a gated lever. So if you miss that lever, that's personal preference.

You don't have full control.

You can't execute a 5-2 downshift while heel-toe rev-matching with a dual clutch. Sure, you can bang down 5-4-3-2 with the paddles, but it's not nearly as satisfying.

 

[GreyGhost]

LOL. My point is that a dual clutch transmission IS a manual and you still have full control. You just shift it with paddles instead of a gated lever. So if you miss that lever, that's personal preference.

Try to drop two or three gears to pass on a DCT and tell me how awesome it is that you have full manual control :/

 

[GreyGhost]

You don't have full control.

You can't execute a 5-2 downshift while heel-toe rev-matching with a dual clutch. Sure, you can bang down 5-4-3-2 with the paddles, but it's not nearly as satisfying.

And slow. DCT is awesome for predictable gear changes but falls flat on it's face in your scenario. Getting from 5 to 2 probably takes most of a second with no power being delivered.

 

[GreyGhost]

LOL. My point is that a dual clutch transmission IS a manual and you still have full control. You just shift it with paddles instead of a gated lever. So if you miss that lever, that's personal preference.

Your arguments work much better if they are attached to Koenigsegg's new flappy paddle gearbox (in the Jesko). That thing is awesome. Every gear gets a clutch so you can go from any gear to any other gear almost instantly. Nine speed, seven clutches.

 

[Relax]

You don't have full control.

You can't execute a 5-2 downshift while heel-toe rev-matching with a dual clutch. Sure, you can bang down 5-4-3-2 with the paddles, but it's not nearly as satisfying.

OK, I'll grant you that. Personally, I prefer to not have to so I can focus on other things during corner entry.

 

[BB722]

Try to drop two or three gears to pass on a DCT and tell me how awesome it is that you have full manual control :/

 

[Relax]

Try to drop two or three gears to pass on a DCT and tell me how awesome it is that you have full manual control :/

CLICK CLICK CLICK done

 

[Lightcycle]

CLICK CLICK CLICK done

Why bother driving a car? Just play Forza instead.

 

[Relax]

And slow. DCT is awesome for predictable gear changes but falls flat on it's face in your scenario. Getting from 5 to 2 probably takes most of a second with no power being delivered.

What? Have you ever driven one? The first shift is instantaneous since it's already in that gear on the second clutch. The next ones happen in milliseconds.

 

[Relax]

Why bother driving a car? Just play Forza instead.

Because there's more to driving than shifting.

 

[Relax]

Yup, Porsche's implementation is one of the best.

 

[GreyGhost]

What? Have you ever driven one? The first shift is instantaneous since it's already in that gear on the second clutch. The next ones happen in milliseconds.

Yup. I have one. First shift is ~10 ms. If you want another one without waiting, >500 ms for the trans to shift, want another one without waiting, 500 ms again. As long as you shift, wait one second, shift, wait one second the changes happen quickly, but dropping two or more to take off is a miserable experience compared to a stick.

 

[Relax]

OK, I'm going to concede here that some people are traditionalists and just don't want to grow. If you don't care about lowering your lap times, then we don't need to talk anymore. I buy my cars with the intent to use them on a track. Being able to driving them on the street is just a side benefit. I don't take my cars for drives just for fun. For that, I ride my bike.

 

[Relax]

Yup. I have one. First shift is ~10 ms. If you want another one without waiting, >500 ms for the trans to shift, want another one without waiting, 500 ms again. As long as you shift, wait one second, shift, wait one second the changes happen quickly, but dropping two or more to take off is a miserable experience compared to a stick.

Do you have a Porsche?

 

[Relax]

Do you have a Porsche?

Or is it an Audi?

 

[Relax]

Try to drop two or three gears to pass on a DCT and tell me how awesome it is that you have full manual control :/

Looks like you CAN skip gears after all, at least on the BMW M-transmissions: "Rapid downshifting: to accelerate rapidly, e.g. when passing, you can skip several gears in sequential mode. To do so, press the accelerator past the resistance point and pull the left shift paddle once or press the selector lever forward once. This provides maximum acceleration." This selects the lowest gear that does not exceed redline. I would think other manufacturers handle it similarly, but then again, as I keep mentioning, it really depends on what you're driving and how it's tuned.

 

[ChrisCBR]

80% of the cars Ive ever owned were stick.
I had the chance to spend some time this weekend with a DSG '18 M4 and a stick '19 M2 competition. These are very similar cars, within 25lbs of each other and share the same engine.
While the M2 comp with the manual is a fun car, the DSG car just makes far more sense for someone who has to actually drive on a daily basis.
The DSG car is faster as well.

 

[GreyGhost]

80% of the cars Ive ever owned were stick.
I had the chance to spend some time this weekend with a DSG '18 M4 and a stick '19 M2 competition. These are very similar cars, within 25lbs of each other and share the same engine.
While the M2 comp with the manual is a fun car, the DSG car just makes far more sense for someone who has to actually drive on a daily basis.
The DSG car is faster as well.

On the street, there is a reasonable argument that slower and more fun are both valuable objectives (basically what the FRS tried to do). Obviously, once a track becomes part of the picture, things change.

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