80% of the cars Ive ever owned were stick.
I had the chance to spend some time this weekend with a DSG '18 M4 and a stick '19 M2 competition. These are very similar cars, within 25lbs of each other and share the same engine.
While the M2 comp with the manual is a fun car, the DSG car just makes far more sense for someone who has to actually drive on a daily basis.
The DSG car is faster as well.
80% of the cars Ive ever owned were stick.
I had the chance to spend some time this weekend with a DSG '18 M4 and a stick '19 M2 competition. These are very similar cars, within 25lbs of each other and share the same engine.
While the M2 comp with the manual is a fun car, the DSG car just makes far more sense for someone who has to actually drive on a daily basis.
The DSG car is faster as well.
On the street, there is a reasonable argument that slower and more fun are both valuable objectives (basically what the FRS tried to do). Obviously, once a track becomes part of the picture, things change.
Looks like you CAN skip gears after all, at least on the BMW M-transmissions: "Rapid downshifting: to accelerate rapidly, e.g. when passing, you can skip several gears in sequential mode. To do so, press the accelerator past the resistance point and pull the left shift paddle once or press the selector lever forward once. This provides maximum acceleration." This selects the lowest gear that does not exceed redline. I would think other manufacturers handle it similarly, but then again, as I keep mentioning, it really depends on what you're driving and how it's tuned.
80% of the cars Ive ever owned were stick.
I had the chance to spend some time this weekend with a DSG '18 M4 and a stick '19 M2 competition. These are very similar cars, within 25lbs of each other and share the same engine.
While the M2 comp with the manual is a fun car, the DSG car just makes far more sense for someone who has to actually drive on a daily basis.
The DSG car is faster as well.
Quote: "Although the dual-clutch saw minimal gains, it’s the six-speed manual that most impressed us. The manual gearbox enables better control of the explosive torque off the line and requires a single—albeit crunchy—shift to reach 60 mph, conquering the feat in 3.9 seconds. Yes, the manual is quicker than the automatic (applause!) even if just barely. It also bests the previous M2 equipped with the manual by 0.3 second to 60 mph and in the quarter-mile, crossing the line in 12.4 seconds."
I happily drive a manual every day. Honestly couldn't imagine buying an automatic M car.
I'm actually debating this right now internally....looking for a BMW 1 series and although I prefer the 128i with the NA engine...that 135i is calling my name. The debate is whether to get it with the DCT or the manual....on the one had I hate the 401 traffic and it sucks balls with a manual. On the other...the DCT will allow my wife to drive it as well (if I ever need the Odyssey) ... tough call. Both options are great. I'd get the auto in the 128 but it only comes with the normal slushbox.
I'm actually debating this right now internally....looking for a BMW 1 series and although I prefer the 128i with the NA engine...that 135i is calling my name. The debate is whether to get it with the DCT or the manual....on the one had I hate the 401 traffic and it sucks balls with a manual. On the other...the DCT will allow my wife to drive it as well (if I ever need the Odyssey) ... tough call. Both options are great. I'd get the auto in the 128 but it only comes with the normal slushbox.
I don't mind traffic in a standard assuming it has enough torque. On my old car, 1st gear no throttle would be ~8km/h and it would never stall. If you can get behind a tractor trailer in a traffic jam, often you can just thump along without touching anything.
Quote: "Although the dual-clutch saw minimal gains, it’s the six-speed manual that most impressed us. The manual gearbox enables better control of the explosive torque off the line and requires a single—albeit crunchy—shift to reach 60 mph, conquering the feat in 3.9 seconds. Yes, the manual is quicker than the automatic (applause!) even if just barely. It also bests the previous M2 equipped with the manual by 0.3 second to 60 mph and in the quarter-mile, crossing the line in 12.4 seconds."
I happily drive a manual every day. Honestly couldn't imagine buying an automatic M car.
I'm actually debating this right now internally....looking for a BMW 1 series and although I prefer the 128i with the NA engine...that 135i is calling my name. The debate is whether to get it with the DCT or the manual....on the one had I hate the 401 traffic and it sucks balls with a manual. On the other...the DCT will allow my wife to drive it as well (if I ever need the Odyssey) ... tough call. Both options are great. I'd get the auto in the 128 but it only comes with the normal slushbox.
135i is on my short list as well, i'd get DCT and i've owned many manual cars, some of them sports (JDM MR2). i'M 37 now, stick is wearing thin on traffic and most autos are good enough now to make the jump. And yes...DCT will mean i can car swap or share drives with the wife.
135i is on my short list as well, i'd get DCT and i've owned many manual cars, some of them sports (JDM MR2). i'M 37 now, stick is wearing thin on traffic and most autos are good enough now to make the jump. And yes...DCT will mean i can car swap or share drives with the wife.
That is why current car is DCT. Less soul destroying than a slush box but very convenient being able to swap cars with the wife without tons of complaining about hating my stupid car.
@Evoex@GreyGhost ... you guys are making this a more difficult decision as the situations are strikingly similar....135i is super nice and I've driven it before....but those German gremlins scare the hell out of me...
@Evoex@GreyGhost ... you guys are making this a more difficult decision as the situations are strikingly similar....135i is super nice and I've driven it before....but those German gremlins scare the hell out of me...
I don't mind traffic in a standard assuming it has enough torque. On my old car, 1st gear no throttle would be ~8km/h and it would never stall. If you can get behind a tractor trailer in a traffic jam, often you can just thump along without touching anything.
This unfortunately doesn’t work on the Gardiner through the core. Leave a quarter car length between you and the person you’re behind and someone will squeeze their way in. I’m almost constantly manipulating the clutch because if I let it all the way out, I’m going too fast. You end up doing the first to neutral coast to brake dance the whole time.
Yes, in the real world the DSG is faster. It will be way more consistent too.
I drive a flashed stick '18 Civic hatch turbo. Last car was a flashed '17 Civic Touring CVT. There isnt much difference but if anything the CVT is faster.
The manual car becomes tiresome in traffic.
A friend of mine owns the M2 and his wife owns the M4. Very nice of them to let me drive those cars haha.
My current M and the last two previous M cars have all been manual. I run track about 4-5 times a summer and have driven other M DCTs around and there's nothing wrong with them, it's just a paradigm change and yea my laps are bit better.
But, Rowing through the gear is just visceral and I'm addicted to that feeling, as you clear the apex, downshift, revmatch and GTFO. I still don't do auto rev matching in my car on the track mostly out of silly fear and still prefer the heel-toe, but it was impressive not to have to think about it and I can see myself getting away from that soon.
So, buy the tranny (lol) that you want man...I can't see BMW putting out more manuals as the engine torque and power increases. Can't see them developing and using R&D resources with diminishing returns. So, I'll keep grinding it till I can't anymore.
Most people that are dying for a manual either aren't in the market to buy one of these high powered cars with a manual, will drive one and realize it isn't the best transmission for those cars, or the car won't be "pure" enough for them and they'll end up buying a used stripped out Miata. Out of any of the folks I know of with what I'd consider a "high performance car", 2 have manuals, the rest have some sort of Auto/DCT/Whatever. The "purists" will always find something on modern cars that isn't good enough (or they can't afford them in the first place); electric steering/general steering feel, weight, sound, etc. It's like the when FRS that doesn't sell that well because enthusiasts are waiting for it to come on the used market in a few years.
I like technology, it makes my stuff faster, smoother, more efficient -- thanks!
There is something to be said for being able to control a bike or car with your bare hands and feet without the use of someone else's brains. I love nothing more than jumping on a 70s era bike and riding it like I did when I was a kid -- no traction control, no ABS, no rev limiters, no anti-wheely. Just me doing the thinking and both me and the bike working hard -- that's a thrill I'll never get tired of.
Chevrolet says "Early 2020". Hard to say what that means in reality, I'd say probably they will start hitting dealers in limited numbers in March/April.
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