There's been experience with single shots with NO followup dating back to the phase 3 trials ... the people who signed up for the trial but for whatever reason, didn't get the single shot on time or at all. (the people participating in these trials are real people with real lives, and the test itself operates in the real world ... things happen)
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Coronavirus
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There's been experience with single shots with NO followup dating back to the phase 3 trials ... the people who signed up for the trial but for whatever reason, didn't get the single shot on time or at all. (the people participating in these trials are real people with real lives, and the test itself operates in the real world ... things happen)
I (re)started University when I was 30. I had profs younger than me. I found I could understand the mindset of those profs closest in age to me, a lot better, and as such their courses seemed easier.
POWERMAN
Well-known member
Opposite experience for me when I went for my M.Eng at Ryerson.
I was 22 - average age was around 37?
Oldest guy was 55ish+ something - word also got around that he was looking for his next wife lmao.
The issues I have is that leadership is getting into making decisions based on extrapolated data.
Extrapolating the data based upon the absolute best case scenario.
Only revealing that such is the case after getting caught at the big lie.
So now, any people with trust issues, are less likely to get the vaccine, than if the leaders had told the truth.
You can go ahead and write them off for being stupid, but at the same time in the back of your mind, is that big lie.
Basing things upon what you can get people to perceive is not the best way forward.
Extrapolating the data based upon the absolute best case scenario.
Only revealing that such is the case after getting caught at the big lie.
So now, any people with trust issues, are less likely to get the vaccine, than if the leaders had told the truth.
You can go ahead and write them off for being stupid, but at the same time in the back of your mind, is that big lie.
Basing things upon what you can get people to perceive is not the best way forward.
The head of the science advisory panel is calling for a golden horseshoe lockdown for at least three weeks asap as cases are climbing quickly. Afaik, Toronto and peel are the hotspots and have never left lockdown since xmas. It is amazing how they just keep doing the same painful half-ass measures in perpetuity while more and more business and people are crushed under the stress with no end in sight.
This right here. These 'lockdowns' are being forced / placed on people by those unaffected by them. They all keep their jobs, keep their pay, and have zero consequences for forcing the lockdown.
You want total lockdown? No problem. Shut it down. But unless you're prepared to provide financial support to keep people afloat, nothing will change.
I've said it before. My friends that get to work from home, myself included, are all for the lockdowns and extending our stay at home time. My other friends, that don't have the option, are 100% against the lockdowns because they can't afford to live.
It's a pipe dream to think that people have enough savings to put them through ANOTHER lockdown. Even if they had those savings (which most do not) those funds are gone if they didn't work during any of these pseudo lockdowns.
POWERMAN
Well-known member
Safe to say this year is a write off as well, then?
289 days to go until 2022!!
torontosun.com
289 days to go until 2022!!
ANOTHER SHADE OF GREY: Keep Toronto in lockdown, says top doc
When the province announces changes to its COVID-19 framework on Friday, Toronto will ask to be left in the 'grey zone'
torontosun.com
Shouldnt be that bad. Once we get all people that want to be vaccinated done and then a three week delay to allow time to build antibodies, we will be at a new normal. It looks like this will be fall. Then what? Probably keep tracking infections and hope they stay under control. If they start growing again, what's next? Mandatory vaccination to enter certain venues? Straight up mandatory vaccinations? A lockdown doesnt make sense to me at that point.Safe to say this year is a write off as well, then?
289 days to go until 2022!!
ANOTHER SHADE OF GREY: Keep Toronto in lockdown, says top doc
When the province announces changes to its COVID-19 framework on Friday, Toronto will ask to be left in the 'grey zone'
Safe to say this year is a write off as well, then?
289 days to go until 2022!!
ANOTHER SHADE OF GREY: Keep Toronto in lockdown, says top doc
When the province announces changes to its COVID-19 framework on Friday, Toronto will ask to be left in the 'grey zone'
No, that isn't the way I see it. Canada is supposed to be receiving (cumulative total) 8 million vaccine doses in March (only 2 weeks left) and another 7 million through April (cumulative 15 million). By not long after that, ~40% of the country will have at least one dose, this covers everyone 50 and over. That's roughly the position the UK is in now, and their case numbers have plummeted - their starting point per capita was much higher than ours, and it's now less than ours per capita. Their daily deaths per capita is still higher than ours, but that's the aftereffects of their massive B.1.1.7 spike. It will be okay ... we just need to avoid that massive spike from taking hold in the next few weeks.
I just saw a news item that stated that the USA was going to send 2.5 million doses of AstraZeneca (not yet approved in USA) to Mexico and 1.5 million to Canada. Don't know the timeframe but they have it sitting in storage, and we know it has an expiration date. And the European Medicine Agency has cleared AstraZeneca again. This will help. (1.5 million doses to Canada leads to about 600,000 in Ontario.)
What's the alternative? We have pretty conclusive evidence that delaying vaccine rollout results in a lot of sickness and death. We would all love for the vaccines to be thoroughly tested and all parameters optimized prior to release but I strongly believe the cost to go that route (in terms of lives affected/ruined/ended) is orders of magnitudes worse.
The science early on was tested with a 3 or 4 week delay between doses in the interest of getting the phase 3 testing done faster so that it could be gotten out into the world faster so that it could start saving lives faster. The 3 or 4 weeks was a "best guess for how close we can go".
The science NOW suggests that a delay of a few months is at a minimum no less effective and potentially more effective (because your body has had more time to react to the first dose before challenging it with the second). And this is consistent with what's seen in other vaccines.
"Follow the science" means apply the best available knowledge AT THE TIME. When the facts change, change your mind.
So change your mind.
Facts haven't changed as far as I know. The science and regulators say two shots 21 (Pfizer) or 28 (Moderna) days apart. The politics say 4 months apart. I'm going to stick with the science this time. If you have evidence otherwise, please post it, otherwise, change your mind back.
Edit: Have a friend who just got her second shot last week, 21 days after the first, as per the Pfizer schedule.
If you strictly apply those timelines, by definition fewer people get vaccinated in the next month or two. Reduction in vaccinated people has a significant impact on sickness and mortality.
The UK is on a "vaccinate everyone once, then everyone again" strategy. The vast majority of people in the UK have only had one shot so far. Here's the results. Look at the daily new cases. United Kingdom Coronavirus: 4,280,882 Cases and 125,926 Deaths - Worldometer
I agree, but you need to be upfront about what you're doing. The decision is a guess as to the best and safest way forward, but there isn't hard evidence to back it up.
and if the U.K. experiment fails?
If you spend 90 seconds Googling things before responding you're less apt to have egg on your face.
Don't count on it. My dismal experience every day being out and about in the wild leads me to conclude that a big percentage of the population are still stupid despite every attempt to educate them. We still can't get a percentage of the population to wear a mask properly (the under the nose people for example), or even make them grasp how they work to reduce transmission.
I wish more people better understood this, but there's always that person who'll rush to say "But laaaaaasssst March they said such and such, now they want us to believe something completely different 12 months later! Faaaaaakkkke!".
What, pray tell, do you foresee the path to failure could be?
Their infection rate is a tenth of what it was at the B.1.1.7 peak and that's with somewhere near 35% of the population vaccinated with (mostly) one dose (plus another unknown portion who have been infected and recovered). If some other crazy resistant variant pops up, they're no worse off having done this - and they have the chance that the second dose could be tailored to that yet-unknown variant.
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