Coronavirus | Page 486 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Coronavirus

Status
Not open for further replies.
An ex student of mine just posted about how they just vaccinated the first person in Wawa today. Jesus...can this roll out be any slower? This is nuts.
 
Evoex said:
globalnews.ca

Moderna joins Pfizer in cutting back on vaccine deliveries to Canada next week - National | Globalnews.ca

It is more bad news for Canada's already troubled vaccine supplies, after Pfizer cut back its deliveries by more than two-thirds since mid-January.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca

LOL

you can't make this **** up.
Click to expand...

When the guy representing your country is a chump you also get treated like a chump. How do we get rid of this POS?

Seriously, we are paying the price for electing a total wimp. It has become very apparent that Canada will politely accept crap treatment from anyone. How do we retaliate?
 
nobbie48 said:
When the guy representing your country is a chump you also get treated like a chump. How do we get rid of this POS?

Seriously, we are paying the price for electing a total wimp. It has become very apparent that Canada will politely accept crap treatment from anyone. How do we retaliate?
Click to expand...
Hire a stand up guy, with a spine and political smarts. Oh wait...we don’t have any in our ranks.
O’Toole?
Singh?
Everyone talks a tough game but when it comes to playing with the big boys.
 
mimico_polak said:
Hire a stand up guy, with a spine and political smarts. Oh wait...we don’t have any in our ranks.
O’Toole?
Singh?
Everyone talks a tough game but when it comes to playing with the big boys.
Click to expand...

A true patriot does the right thing when it's needed. A politician only promises to do the right thing during the election race. In other words O'Toole, come up with some suggestions and JT, take them if they help. Forget about who is getting the credit.

What? If someone is drowning you're not going to do anything until the cameras show up to record your heroism?

Singh reminds me of the little guy that says if I had a million dollars I would buy myself a Ferrari. But he doesn't have a million dollars or anything near it. A wishful thinker.
 
jc100 said:
An ex student of mine just posted about how they just vaccinated the first person in Wawa today. Jesus...can this roll out be any slower? This is nuts.
Click to expand...

Have you been to Wawa? I think there's only about 6 people that live there. ;)

nobbie48 said:
When the guy representing your country is a chump you also get treated like a chump. How do we get rid of this POS?
Click to expand...

So, despite all the groaning about JT and the provincial governments "dropping the ball" and all that, has anyone actually read past the headlines and got into the deep nitty gritty details?

Both the Moderna and the Pfizer delays are because of ramp-ups in production and bottlenecks in getting materials needed to actually produce the vaccines and get them out the door. Canada isn't alone in getting hosed on their supply, lots of other countries are as well. There's also some protectionism going on - Pfizer didn't short the USA because it's a US company...so yeah, the optics on that would have been pretty bad, the same as if the vaccine was being produced here in Toronto but (for example) they opted to ship supplies to the USA and leave us stranded here at home. There would be flaming pitchforks in the streets.

Modernas supply issues also seem to be partly based on export controls...IE, countries protecting the supply where they're made, IE, hoarding them. Since moderna took dumptruck loads of cash from the USA for it's production, well..again, same situation as before - they don't want to bite the hand that fed them.

In the end a great deal of these issues quietly come back to the USA flexing it's muscle without much care to the rest of the world. Bidens predecesor couldn't have gave 2 ***** about the rest of the world, that should have been clear to most. It's unclear if Biden is willing to play nicer in the sandbox, but given his situation and the mess the USA is in right now, that's doubtful.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Have you been to Wawa? I think there's only about 6 people that live there. ;)



So, despite all the groaning about JT and the provincial governments "dropping the ball" and all that, has anyone actually read past the headlines and got into the deep nitty gritty details?

Both the Moderna and the Pfizer delays are because of ramp-ups in production and bottlenecks in getting materials needed to actually produce the vaccines and get them out the door. Canada isn't alone in getting hosed on their supply, lots of other countries are as well. There's also some protectionism going on - Pfizer didn't short the USA because it's a US company...so yeah, the optics on that would have been pretty bad, the same as if the vaccine was being produced here in Toronto but (for example) they opted to ship supplies to the USA and leave us stranded here at home. There would be flaming pitchforks in the streets.

Modernas supply issues also seem to be partly based on export controls...IE, countries protecting the supply where they're made, IE, hoarding them. Since moderna took dumptruck loads of cash from the USA for it's production, well..again, same situation as before - they don't want to bite the hand that fed them.

In the end a great deal of these issues quietly come back to the USA flexing it's muscle without much care to the rest of the world. Bidens predecesor couldn't have gave 2 ***** about the rest of the world, that should have been clear to most. It's unclear if Biden is willing to play nicer in the sandbox, but given his situation and the mess the USA is in right now, that's doubtful.
Click to expand...
The last I read, pfizer europe output dropped 8%. Supply to europe dropped ~8%. Supply to canada dropped >50%. Jt and his team suck. This was before any discussion of export controls. This was electioneering contracts where he only cares about the end state (vaccines for all before october) not the much more critical rapid early rollout.
 
It also ought to be quite apparent why Canada for the most part sourced vaccine supply from Europe and not the USA. Yes, we're subject to EU hoarding as well, but they're ... not Americans. And on this count ... JT and the rest of the team involved in arranging our supply, made the correct move. YES it sucks that we can't make any of this ourselves, but that's the situation on the ground that we have to deal with.

The EU and the UK are currently having a spat over AstraZeneca supply ... which is made even more absurd by that vaccine having been developed in the UK at Oxford University and it's made in the UK, AND ... at the time that this spat started, the EU hadn't even approved the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine (they just approved it yesterday).

If we had the capability to make these vaccines here, would you be happy about shipping them elsewhere?

If you lived in the UK (which is in a great deal of trouble due to the "variant") ... would you be happy about shipping it to the EU which (at the time) hadn't even approved its use yet? What sense does that make? They made some. Use it where it's approved instead of letting some of it sit around while some approval agency sits around doing nothing.

If you lived in the EU, would you be happy about the EU having to ship a portion of the vaccine that it can make, out of the EU (e.g. to Canada) instead of using it at home?

Crap like this is gonna happen. It was inevitable. Who's in charge here, wouldn't matter.

And ... as someone who works in manufacturing ... Problems happen when setting up new production or ramping up production of a new product. Equipment breaks. Operators make mistakes. Suppliers screw up and have their own problems. Paperwork gets messed up. Processes don't always run at the rate that someone thought it should on paper. Until all the equipment is up and running, and doing what it's supposed to do, and everybody involved in the process gets familiar with what they need to do and when ... there's gonna be headaches. No amount of squabbling by the politicians and threats of lawsuits by the lawyers will fix the discovery by the production people that the new piece of equipment doesn't quite do what they need it to do, or that in the big rush someone forgot to order supplies, or fix any of the other multitude of things that can go wrong.

Politicians ... lawyers ... etc ... Step back and let the production people do their jobs. They'll get it done faster if you're not trying to interrupt them.

And I do this myself. I don't know how many times, after discovering a problem with a machine, I've said something like "I'm gonna go have a coffee. Let's try this again when I come back." And, it's either fixed, or there's a plan of attack. Last time that happened ... Yesterday.
 
GreyGhost said:
The last I read
Click to expand...

Be careful to read past the headlines, like I said. Given what my wife does for a living I hear a lot more of the nitty gritty details, and I've also spent a lot of time reading up on it for lack of anything better to do right now a lot of evenings.

There's a lot of issues with protectionism and production going on. When it comes to the supply that IS going out the door the only differences is where the product ends up - and when the USA is the 900# gorilla in the room, one who poured billions of dollars into the production of the vaccine (Moderna) or the company is an American company to begin with (Pfizer), well, this is what you get.

Again, look at the devils advocate..... If Canada had domestic production right now and/or government had gave the company billions to make the vaccine, and it was a domestic Canadian owned company...would YOU be happy if that company said "We're going to cut your supply so we can ship more vials to the USA right now".....?
 
It is what it is, now it's time to go on with other ways to deal with the problems.
(y) and yes, domestic production of anything and everything is good for the country.
 
Brian P said:
It also ought to be quite apparent why Canada for the most part sourced vaccine supply from Europe and not the USA. Yes, we're subject to EU hoarding as well, but they're ... not Americans. And on this count ... JT and the rest of the team involved in arranging our supply, made the correct move. YES it sucks that we can't make any of this ourselves, but that's the situation on the ground that we have to deal with.

The EU and the UK are currently having a spat over AstraZeneca supply ... which is made even more absurd by that vaccine having been developed in the UK at Oxford University and it's made in the UK, AND ... at the time that this spat started, the EU hadn't even approved the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine (they just approved it yesterday).

If we had the capability to make these vaccines here, would you be happy about shipping them elsewhere?

If you lived in the UK (which is in a great deal of trouble due to the "variant") ... would you be happy about shipping it to the EU which (at the time) hadn't even approved its use yet? What sense does that make? They made some. Use it where it's approved instead of letting some of it sit around while some approval agency sits around doing nothing.

If you lived in the EU, would you be happy about the EU having to ship a portion of the vaccine that it can make, out of the EU (e.g. to Canada) instead of using it at home?

Crap like this is gonna happen. It was inevitable. Who's in charge here, wouldn't matter.

And ... as someone who works in manufacturing ... Problems happen when setting up new production or ramping up production of a new product. Equipment breaks. Operators make mistakes. Suppliers screw up and have their own problems. Paperwork gets messed up. Processes don't always run at the rate that someone thought it should on paper. Until all the equipment is up and running, and doing what it's supposed to do, and everybody involved in the process gets familiar with what they need to do and when ... there's gonna be headaches. No amount of squabbling by the politicians and threats of lawsuits by the lawyers will fix the discovery by the production people that the new piece of equipment doesn't quite do what they need it to do, or that in the big rush someone forgot to order supplies, or fix any of the other multitude of things that can go wrong.

Politicians ... lawyers ... etc ... Step back and let the production people do their jobs. They'll get it done faster if you're not trying to interrupt them.

And I do this myself. I don't know how many times, after discovering a problem with a machine, I've said something like "I'm gonna go have a coffee. Let's try this again when I come back." And, it's either fixed, or there's a plan of attack. Last time that happened ... Yesterday.
Click to expand...

I think the Astra Zeneca vaccine is made in Belgium too. The EU is (somewhat rightly) a bit miffed about the European taxpayer cash that went into funding these things and at the same time being stiffed on promised supply.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Be careful to read past the headlines, like I said. Given what my wife does for a living I hear a lot more of the nitty gritty details, and I've also spent a lot of time reading up on it for lack of anything better to do right now a lot of evenings.

There's a lot of issues with protectionism and production going on. When it comes to the supply that IS going out the door the only differences is where the product ends up - and when the USA is the 900# gorilla in the room, one who poured billions of dollars into the production of the vaccine (Moderna) or the company is an American company to begin with (Pfizer), well, this is what you get.

Again, look at the devils advocate..... If Canada had domestic production right now and/or government had gave the company billions to make the vaccine, and it was a domestic Canadian owned company...would YOU be happy if that company said "We're going to cut your supply so we can ship more vials to the USA right now".....?
Click to expand...
I would be absolutely shocked if we havent paid billions for vaccines. Of course I cant know for sure because JT is strongly relying on the fog of war to avoid evidence of graft.
 
We will get past this. It's not like we're getting nothing for the next 4 weeks, we're just getting less.


GreyGhost said:
I would be absolutely shocked if we havent paid billions for vaccines. Of course I cant know for sure because JT is strongly relying on the fog of war to avoid evidence of graft.
Click to expand...

I'm sure we have, but we didn't contribute anything towards the investigative portion of the process, so arguably the vaccine companies don't "owe" us priority access, either. On the other hand, look south of the border, and yeah, not so much, at least in the case of one of the two.

So again, I ask, If we HAD given Canadian XYZ Vaccine Co billions of dollars to produce the vaccine, there would probably be quiet incentive for them to not crap all over our supplies while quietly reducing shipments to others to spread what they have around as best as they can.

Like Brian touched on above, there's so many different puzzle pieces being shuffled around the table right now that pinning blame on any one person is disingenuous.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Be careful to read past the headlines, like I said. Given what my wife does for a living I hear a lot more of the nitty gritty details, and I've also spent a lot of time reading up on it for lack of anything better to do right now a lot of evenings.

There's a lot of issues with protectionism and production going on. When it comes to the supply that IS going out the door the only differences is where the product ends up - and when the USA is the 900# gorilla in the room, one who poured billions of dollars into the production of the vaccine (Moderna) or the company is an American company to begin with (Pfizer), well, this is what you get.

Again, look at the devils advocate..... If Canada had domestic production right now and/or government had gave the company billions to make the vaccine, and it was a domestic Canadian owned company...would YOU be happy if that company said "We're going to cut your supply so we can ship more vials to the USA right now".....?
Click to expand...
if that was the contracts the company agreed to then we have little to complain about, unless we want to start leaning on countries with a nationalist agenda, which i don't agree with.
 
PrivatePilot said:
We will get past this. It's not like we're getting nothing for the next 4 weeks, we're just getting less.




I'm sure we have, but we didn't contribute anything towards the investigative portion of the process, so arguably the vaccine companies don't "owe" us priority access, either. On the other hand, look south of the border, and yeah, not so much, at least in the case of one of the two.

So again, I ask, If we HAD given Canadian XYZ Vaccine Co billions of dollars to produce the vaccine, there would probably be quiet incentive for them to not crap all over our supplies while quietly reducing shipments to others to spread what they have around as best as they can.

Like Brian touched on above, there's so many different puzzle pieces being shuffled around the table right now that pinning blame on any one person is disingenuous.
Click to expand...
Jt has said in press conferences that the contracts we signed require canada to pay even if the vaccines dont work, arent approved or arent delivered. By definition that means we are paying for development. Otherwise I would only be paying for working products delivered on time.
 
GreyGhost said:
Jt has said in press conferences that the contracts we signed require canada to pay even if the vaccines dont work, arent approved or arent delivered. By definition that means we are paying for development. Otherwise I would only be paying for working products delivered on time.
Click to expand...
Result of putting 'whoever makes me look good' into cabinet positions and not qualified people?

?‍?
 
GreyGhost said:
Jt has said in press conferences that the contracts we signed require canada to pay even if the vaccines dont work, arent approved or arent delivered.
Click to expand...

Most other countries signed similar contracts.

Putting onerous and potentially impossible to meet requirements and demands in contracts for vaccines that were still in exploratory stages much less production would have been met with a refusal by the manufacturers. Everyone wants them. It would be like buying a house when it's in an area that has insane demand - the seller is going to go with the offers that come in with the least encumbrances versus the one who comes along and wants to make an offer with conditions.

- Cash deal at asking price, 90 day close, end of story - sold.

- Conditional offer pending a home inspection, needs to arrange financing, wants the appliances even though they're not in the deal, wants to nitpick on what chattels come with the house, needs a 180 day close, etc etc etc.....yeah, go away, I sold the house to the guy above, go find a house somewhere else.
 
Last edited:
None of us were privy to the contract negotiations. NONE of us.

When you are attempting to purchase something that you know is going to be in short supply, you have to pay the going rate, and you have to accept the standard terms.

Company's point of view: you don't want to accept the standard terms? Fine. We'll sell it to the chap waiting right behind you instead. "But..but..but" ... Sign here. Don't like it? There's the door.

edit: I should add that it is very common that one of those standard terms ... is a non-disclosure agreement (NDA).
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom