Clayton Rivet death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

[Gnu]

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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

In the eyes of a court, and from an insurance perspective the pedestrian would not be judged at fault.

If it can of course be shown the pedestrian looked before stepping off the sidewalk.

What I was asking in my question was, at what point if there was a vehicle in sight, would the pedestrian be considered at fault?

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

How is that weak? They obviously did a through investigation and reported there findings. You can't change anyone based on an assumption. You can only lay a charge on fact.

Just because the facts don't support your idea then it is weak? If the police were to begin laying charges based solely on assumptions you would be one if the first the complain about it, (and rightfully so).

Now you posted in at least two posts the officer was doing a 3 - 5 point turn, this simply isn't true the investigation confirmed it was a u turn, they would have used the cruisers GPS to determine this.

As for the person who questioned how the SIU knew the officer was completing a u turn... same answer, from the cruisers black box and GPS.

Really? The SIU reports their findings of their thorough investigation with "It seems"? As a former police officer this appears normal and reasonable to you?

And yup. That's me again on how the SIU can report as to the officer's intent. They blocked the road, and I will believe that is their intent until the officer's notes say otherwise. A turning manouver was never completed, and black boxes certainly do not have the ability to read minds as to someone's intent, only the real physical actions that occurred, and not the future.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

What I was asking in my question was, at what point if there was a vehicle in sight, would the pedestrian be considered at fault?

Pedestrains are not the best of examples. They do not have lights, do not travel at 25km/hr, and are not a vehicle by law. It's a whole 'nother ball game with them. Pretty much you hit one, better be prepared to lawyer up.

 

[ZX600]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Really? The SIU reports their findings of their thorough investigation with "It seems"? As a former police officer this appears normal and reasonable to you?

It is hard to have a conversation/argument with certain people, it just goes round and round in circles.

I have no skin in this so it is time for me to retire from this thread. Good luck to all, after all I am sure everyone will be successful in showing how right they are and changing other minds.

 

[inreb]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Pedestrians are good examples because of the need for self preservation. You do stuff in a car you wouldn't in high tops.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Pedestrians are good examples because of the need for self preservation. You do stuff in a car you wouldn't in high tops.

Ah. I hear that. I've been told many years ago that I lack a sense of self preservation. Maybe that's why I couldn't pick up on it.

 

[inreb]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Anyways, this is a sad topic and I prefer to not be sad....

Speak among yourselves.

I have no skin in this so it is time for me to retire from this thread. Good luck to all, after all I am sure everyone will be successful in showing how right they are and changing other minds.

I had a feeling you're above the fray. Well done sir.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

It is hard to have a conversation/argument with certain people, it just goes round and round in circles.

I have no skin in this so it is time for me to retire from this thread. Good luck to all, after all I am sure everyone will be successful in showing how right they are and changing other minds.

I will remain persistent. I will also keep an open mind to opposing line of thoughts.
If you have anything to offer for either side of the fence, I encourage you to raise your voice.

 

[Brian P]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Pedestrians are good examples because of the need for self preservation. You do stuff in a car you wouldn't in high tops.

And yet ... people walk while staring at the screen of their phone, blissfully ignorant of everything happening around them.

Yes, we have a problem with distracted driving, too - but pedestrians have gotten used to never being held responsible for their actions. If drivers drove as distracted as a good many pedestrians walk, they wouldn't last 5 minutes.

 

[lator-illa]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

It is hard to have a conversation/argument with certain people, it just goes round and round in circles.

I have no skin in this so it is time for me to retire from this thread. Good luck to all, after all I am sure everyone will be successful in showing how right they are and changing other minds.

I will remain persistent. I will also keep an open mind to opposing line of thoughts.
If you have anything to offer for either side of the fence, I encourage you to raise your voice.

This is exactly how I feel, DC. There are people who are on the opposite side of the spectrum, and there will be no convincing them. But I do admire your resilience.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

And yet ... people walk while staring at the screen of their phone, blissfully ignorant of everything happening around them.

Yes, we have a problem with distracted driving, too - but pedestrians have gotten used to never being held responsible for their actions. If drivers drove as distracted as a good many pedestrians walk, they wouldn't last 5 minutes.

Haha. Can't argue with that! I remember a pedestrian walking right into the side of a 53' trailer during my driving test in Oshawa. Had I not of stopped moving, they were goin under. The test lady was giving me **** for stopping in middle of intersection, she couldn't see him in the mirror. Pretty much a guaranteed pass after that...

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

But you surely wouldn't pull out in front, based on your own experience of being unable to judge speed in similar situation?

Quoting myself here Rob, just in case you missed it being buried in the thread. I have seen you have posted a few times since, have you not seen this/reserving response for later/choosing not to answer?

 

[85K100]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I went through there again today, twice, and had a good look around. There is a gully to the west of the collision site, roughly 250 metres. There is not a continuous line of sight. There was definitely a period of time when the two vehicles would not have been visible to each other. Also at that time (as I mentioned in a previous post) the road was diverted and barriers were in place. This would have further restricted the line of sight between the 2 vehicles.
My personal conclusion is they didn't see each other until seconds before the collision.
It is also my personal opinion that there wasn't enough room for a continuous non-stopping U turn, and that the term is being loosely (erroneously perhaps?) used to describe a 180 degree change in course. There were only two lanes of pavement with a narrow gravel shoulder on the north, and concrete barriers on the south, right against the line marking the edge of the lane. Certainly not enough room to do a 25 km/hr U turn without leaving some major skid marks. It would be a burnout/Donut maneuver like you'd see in a James Bond movie.
I think what they mean was he was going 25 km/hr when he decided to turn around.
Regardless, it was a dumb place to turn around with bad sight lines.
It was also a bad place to be doing 140+ km/hr. on a bike at night. It was fresh new asphalt and apparently there were no other vehicles visible, except maybe the tail lights of a car far ahead (the cop), so I can easily understand how he could be doing that. Its very easy and effortless on a bike like that and I can easily see myself doing the same thing.
He would have seen nothing until he got to the chicane, where his lane was quickly diverted 2 lanes to the left to reveal the cop car across the road, hidden by the barriers.
Very sad and tragic.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

This is exactly how I feel, DC. There are people who are on the opposite side of the spectrum, and there will be no convincing them. But I do admire your resilience.

Thanks. No, you do not get a discount.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I went through there again today, twice, and had a good look around. There is a gully to the west of the collision site, roughly 250 metres. There is not a continuous line of sight. There was definitely a period of time when the two vehicles would not have been visible to each other. Also at that time (as I mentioned in a previous post) the road was diverted and barriers were in place. This would have further restricted the line of sight between the 2 vehicles.
My personal conclusion is they didn't see each other until seconds before the collision.
It is also my personal opinion that there wasn't enough room for a continuous non-stopping U turn, and that the term is being loosely (erroneously perhaps?) used to describe a 180 degree change in course. There were only two lanes of pavement with a narrow gravel shoulder on the north, and concrete barriers on the south, right against the line marking the edge of the lane. Certainly not enough room to do a 25 km/hr U turn without leaving some major skid marks. It would be a burnout/Donut maneuver like you'd see in a James Bond movie.
I think what they mean was he was going 25 km/hr when he decided to turn around.
Regardless, it was a dumb place to turn around with bad sight lines.
It was also a bad place to be doing 140+ km/hr. on a bike at night. It was fresh new asphalt and apparently there were no other vehicles visible, except maybe the tail lights of a car far ahead (the cop), so I can easily understand how he could be doing that. Its very easy and effortless on a bike like that and I can easily see myself doing the same thing.
He would have seen nothing until he got to the chicane, where his lane was quickly diverted 2 lanes to the left to reveal the cop car across the road, hidden by the barriers.
Very sad and tragic.

Jeebus, who are you and are you for hire? You could save me so much typing.'Tis quite incredible how anyone that actually attended the site can draw such similar conclusions. The rest seem to prefer sitting at home behind their keyboards playing Internet CSI.....

 

[lator-illa]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

No, I call it weak because of statements like these:

You missed this one as well:

"A civilian witness’ evidence gives us some sense of this possibility when she recounts that the motorcycle could not be seen in her rear view mirror when she checked it 30 seconds before it passed her at high speed without any warning. "

Am I the only one bothered by the fact that the SIU included this in the official report to try and justify that speed was the lone underlying factor in Clayton's death?

 

[lator-illa]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Thanks. No, you do not get a discount.

HA. As long as my bike stays British, I think it remains.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

You missed this one as well:

"A civilian witness’ evidence gives us some sense of this possibility when she recounts that the motorcycle could not be seen in her rear view mirror when she checked it 30 seconds before it passed her at high speed without any warning. "

Am I the only one bothered by the fact that the SIU included this in the official report to try and justify that speed was the lone underlying factor in Clayton's death?

Completely absurd and irrelevant. To release such a thing only suggests to the depth of investigation and respect for all parties involved.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

HA. As long as my bike stays British, I think it remains.

Fine. Go crash it again and we will see what I can work out for ya.

 

[hedo2002]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Not sure what you find so amazing about this. He obviously has made a HUGH error in that he states there is no room to have made a u turn due to the concrete barriers. I guess he completely missed the point that the cruiser was shown (via the gps), which he admits would have shown EXACTLY what moves the car made. Then he speaks of a depression only 250 m from the crash. Why is this depression not spoken of in your investigation where you measured at least 550 m of a clear sight line??? So the officer didn't have space to complete a u turn but the cruiser was moving at 25 km/h, so I guess he was planning to ram the concrete barrier at that speed. GMAFB. Also the "new" evidence from this person is compromised by the fact he also missed the fact that Clayton was familiar with this road and the construction zone, (in his post he implies Clayton may not have known and therefore not realized the cruiser would block the available lanes). Back to school for the Internet CSI's...lol

I wouldn't hire him or you to find my lost cat..lmao

Others are right, there is no changing your mind as you ate a MUCH more qualified investigator, (even thought you had access to NONE of the evidence. Your tin foil is simply impenetrable.

For the last time.

You had NONE of the evidence, yet you ate able to complete an investigation that virtually counters everything the professionals were able to determine, from the release of part of their investigation. Do you really think this is the entire report? You asked if we knew the officers name. No we don't as he wasn't charged with anything. It is SOP to release the names of those charged and of course of victims, (with family consent), so not sure what your point is?? Other than to make it appear as a big conspiracy.

There was an investigation, you don't get it. You THINK you know better. The officer has not and will not, (unless you go down and lay the information), be charged. It is a tragedy that Clayton is dead. But he was the author of his own demise. This will NOT change. Is it your hope if you post enough that the SIU will suddenly say holy crap we missed that. Good thing casacrow was there to follow up. You can post 20 more pages of speculation, what if's, and conspiracies, but that will change NOTHING in this case. Maybe seek a meeting with the director of the SIU to show him how poorly this case was handled and that your investigation was much more comprehensive than their investigation. Also point out that despite your posting even before the investigation that the officer "needs to be disciplined". You were miraculously able to conduct an unbiased investigation even though you had predetermined the outcome...

Jeebus, who are you and are you for hire? You could save me so much typing.'Tis quite incredible how anyone that actually attended the site can draw such similar conclusions. The rest seem to prefer sitting at home behind their keyboards playing Internet CSI.....

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