Clayton Rivet death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

[casacrow]

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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

It was a sarcastic comment. To me 130 in a country road is reasonable, to others is suicide.

150 at night in a country road for a rider that knows the area well is not unreasonable, risky and probably dumb yea - Doing a 5 point U-turn on a road that is down to 1 lane is unreasonable.

They are both at fault but to me, the officer is not able to perform his job while exercising proper judgement and with his position of police officer he should be removed.

The funny thing is that none of what we say really matters time for a coffee !

I knew exactly what ya were sayin. Im not gunna hold speeding against anyone here though. Only if they say they never have.

And yes what we and you say does matter. It's our thoughts/beliefs/actions/votes that may have an impact on future laws and such. I'm not always so sure it happens, but apparently they reflect the views of the majority.

 

[ZX600]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I knew exactly what ya were sayin. Im not gunna hold speeding against anyone here though. Only if they say they never have.

And yes what we and you say does matter. It's our thoughts/beliefs/actions/votes that may have an impact on future laws and such. I'm not always so sure it happens, but apparently they reflect the views of the majority.

If what the majority thinks had any bearing on the actions of the police, people responsible for what happen during the G20 would be held accountable.

This is why I have no faith in the police, SIU or anyone involved in the investigation, they are all sleeping in the same bed.

Anyways, this is a sad topic and I prefer to not be sad....

Speak among yourselves.

 

[Emefef]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Oh we get it, the problem is The officer did not perform a safe action like the person in this quote did.
He chose to make a U-turn on a place that required a 3 or even 5 point turn when he could have chosen to do it in a safer place ultimately causing the accident.
That is the part some of you are "not getting"
Not to forget the fact that I would not be surprised if a "I will catch him" action from the officer went terrible wrong... but this paragraph is just my opinion.

I didn't see that we had confirmed it was a 3 or 5 part U-turn. You're certainly right that the "I will catch him" action is just your opinion because the officer wasn't required to disclose his state of mind at the time. What I also didn't see in the SIU release, which much of these arguments seem to be based on, is whether or not the bike was actually visible to the officer when he made the decision. A lot of the criticism and speculation seems to be that based on the fact that the officer should have seen the bike and should not have decided to "pull out".
We're back to the speculation that was rampant prior to the investigation.

 

[ZX600]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I didn't see that we had confirmed it was a 3 or 5 part U-turn. You're certainly right that the "I will catch him" action is just your opinion because the officer wasn't required to disclose his state of mind at the time. What I also didn't see in the SIU release, which much of these arguments seem to be based on, is whether or not the bike was actually visible to the officer when he made the decision. A lot of the criticism and speculation seems to be that based on the fact that the officer should have seen the bike and should not have decided to "pull out".
We're back to the speculation that was rampant prior to the investigation.

Probably because the investigation was weak at best. No?

 

[Emefef]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

It was a sarcastic comment. To me 130 in a country road is reasonable, to others is suicide.

150 at night in a country road for a rider that knows the area well is not unreasonable, risky and probably dumb yea - Doing a 5 point U-turn on a road that is down to 1 lane is unreasonable.

They are both at fault but to me, the officer is not able to perform his job while exercising proper judgement and with his position of police officer he should be removed.

The funny thing is that none of what we say really matters time for a coffee !

It's reasonable to you because you believe you have the skill to handle it, and I don't mean to imply that belief is misplaced, it's just not relevant. At law, it's not reasonable, because it's not how you're expected to be using the road by other road users that are all using the road under a common set of rules. A person that looks all around and sees no threat before executing the turn has done what's reasonable.
When we say "expect the unexpected", it's still a reference to what may be a "little out of the ordinary". If we had to look down the road and think "a vehicle travelling at 154 kmh, would be invisible to me right now, but could hit me by the time I finish my turn"....how long would we have wait? We would never know for certain because that vehicle could always be half a second from coming into sight....therefore, we have a standard based on what is reasonable.
So what you think is reasonable for your abilities is one thing - but when someone else does what's reasonable based on the law, you could still be at fault.

 

[Emefef]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Weak? because it doesn't support your theory? No, I think we don't have those details because there's no requirement that the entire investigation be published in a press release.
I just wondered why there were so many references to a 3 or 5 point turn based on someone's analysis, when the press release simply said U-Turn.

 

[Baggsy]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Couldn't it have appeared to be a car with 1 headlight?

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I didn't see that we had confirmed it was a 3 or 5 part U-turn. You're certainly right that the "I will catch him" action is just your opinion because the officer wasn't required to disclose his state of mind at the time. What I also didn't see in the SIU release, which much of these arguments seem to be based on, is whether or not the bike was actually visible to the officer when he made the decision. A lot of the criticism and speculation seems to be that based on the fact that the officer should have seen the bike and should not have decided to "pull out".
We're back to the speculation that was rampant prior to the investigation.

Ya I know eh? See bike don't pull out.

Didn't see bike-Find a safer place to make your move.

Can't wait until we get to debate how the SIU could possibly know the intent of the officer was to turn around, without a statement or notes from the officer.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Weak? because it doesn't support your theory? No, I think we don't have those details because there's no requirement that the entire investigation be published in a press release.
I just wondered why there were so many references to a 3 or 5 point turn based on someone's analysis, when the press release simply said U-Turn.

Even more than that, it indicated a continuous u-turn at 25 Kmh.

 

[inreb]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

In front of a speeding bike? Why?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

In front of a speeding bike? Why?

Reports indicate that he was turning around so that he could head to a call. As to the specifics, well that's been well covered in the previous 22 pages.

 

[inreb]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Reports indicate that he was turning around so that he could head to a call. As to the specifics, well that's been well covered in the previous 22 pages.

Couldn't he just have let the rider pass first?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Couldn't he just have let the rider pass first?

Again, covered in the previous 22 pages.

 

[-D-]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

nobody will know what happened except for the dead guy and the living officer
unless by chance someone has a security camera pointed there nothing else will change so it seems

 

[inreb]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

nobody will know what happened except for the dead guy and the living officer
unless by chance someone has a security camera pointed there nothing else will change so it seems

somebody gets it, my reason for deadpan posts #450, #452

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

nobody will know what happened except for the dead guy and the living officer
unless by chance someone has a security camera pointed there nothing else will change so it seems

Dead guy's name is Clayton Rivet. Anyone happen to know the officer's?

 

[ZX600]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Weak? because it doesn't support your theory? No, I think we don't have those details because there's no requirement that the entire investigation be published in a press release.
I just wondered why there were so many references to a 3 or 5 point turn based on someone's analysis, when the press release simply said U-Turn.

No, I call it weak because of statements like these:

In the end, it seems that one or more of the man’s speed, low lighting conditions and possible visual obstructions caused by construction work in the area, contributed to the collision that occurred."

"Be that as it may, even assuming for the moment that the officer was something less than careful as he proceeded into his U-turn, I am satisfied that this singular indiscretion is far less than the marked departure from the level of care that a reasonable person would have exercised in the circumstances – the standard prescribed by the criminal law for there to be reasonable grounds to lay a criminal charge

 

[hedo2002]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

How is that weak? They obviously did a through investigation and reported there findings. You can't change anyone based on an assumption. You can only lay a charge on fact.

Just because the facts don't support your idea then it is weak? If the police were to begin laying charges based solely on assumptions you would be one if the first the complain about it, (and rightfully so).

Now you posted in at least two posts the officer was doing a 3 - 5 point turn, this simply isn't true the investigation confirmed it was a u turn, they would have used the cruisers GPS to determine this.

As for the person who questioned how the SIU knew the officer was completing a u turn... same answer, from the cruisers black box and GPS.

 

[Gnu]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

So I'm a pedestrian crossing a rural road and pushing a baby carriage. I use a rural example because with no crosswalks or intersections nearby, I simply have a responsibility to ensure it's safe before I cross the road. As far as I can see in either direction, it looks safe. A vehicle suddenly appears going twice the speed limit - I didn't expect that - I can't get out of the way in time. Whatever the outcome, whatever death or dismemberment occurs, one person acted reasonably with all available information at the time. The other, acting unreasonably and illegally, caused the collision.

So at what point in your example, would it be your fault, or partially at fault?

 

[hedo2002]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

In the eyes of a court, and from an insurance perspective the pedestrian would not be judged at fault.

If it can of course be shown the pedestrian looked before stepping off the sidewalk.

So at what point in your example, would it be your fault, or partially at fault?

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