see theres a good attitude. win some, loose some. there ain no reason.................infact i dun even know why we are getting upset...... guys its a civic , if were were talking about a lingenfelter Vette, or a Ruf porsche, or maybe a Hammond ferrari then yes you can debate it. unless this civic is running over 500 foot lbs torque i dont see how he is knocking the socks of motorcycles, i cant understand how when he is probably triple+ the weight of a bike. the math dont make sence.........and i suk at math. is anybody else on the same page as me. there is no telling what he has right now all we are going on is some legendary civic, which as far as im concerned is already an oxymoron.