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Canadian Motor Speedway

it would be really good to get a track closer to us and to help boost the economy a little in fort erie since that horse track thing happened. lets hope it goes through, 20 minutes to the track beatd an hour any day of the week. plus having a second track this close would be great
 
just read that again, are they only building an oval? i know i read somewhere they wanted to build an oval with a dirt track and road course all at the same location. if its an oval i could give two ***** about it and nascar for that matter. something with corners ill gladly be all for
 
Ha, that site is interesting. Whoever heard of "carbon neutral" development....to build a facility for people who burn hydrocarbons as a hobby?
 
a nascar guy designed it so itll be primarly hard left corners with very very very mild rights, lol. regardless itll be good to get another track here, hopefully it works out
 
a nascar guy designed it so itll be primarly hard left corners with very very very mild rights, lol. regardless itll be good to get another track here, hopefully it works out

I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that the road course would be FIA/FIM certified.

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Jamie will be here in a minute to warn us of the dip coming out of 5 onto the back straight and the bump at the end of the main straightaway.

Seriously, it'll be nice if it goes ahead.
 
Damn that place looks sweet! The sound in the tunnels will be nuts!
 
How do you have a road course with a tunnel, without having a considerable impact hazard on the entrance to the lower level of the tunnel and a considerable fall-from-heights hazard at the entrance to the bridge over the tunnel?

I know something like this has been done (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Ring_Motegi ) but the design and layout are tricky and the safety demands of doing so can force a lot of compromises in other areas; the Wiki article touches on these.

It's better to have enormous run-offs with nothing to hit. Entrances to bridges and tunnels don't lend themselves to that consideration.
 
How do you have a road course with a tunnel, without having a considerable impact hazard on the entrance to the lower level of the tunnel and a considerable fall-from-heights hazard at the entrance to the bridge over the tunnel?

I know something like this has been done (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Ring_Motegi ) but the design and layout are tricky and the safety demands of doing so can force a lot of compromises in other areas; the Wiki article touches on these.

It's better to have enormous run-offs with nothing to hit. Entrances to bridges and tunnels don't lend themselves to that consideration.


http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/japan_878/circuit_diagram.html
Suzukas a bridge but involves both an entry and the high drop off you talk about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_YB9zBMqhA
I'd defy you to see where the bridge is.



http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail/monaco_869/circuit_diagram.html

Loews Tunnel at Monte Carlo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdqmPE0DEJU
 
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Detroit F1 street course had a tunnel years ago.

The Suzuka course isn't really a tunnel looks more like the bridge at Mosport.

I'd take my chances if i was offered to ride around Monaco ;)
 
You can get away with stuff for car racing, that you cannot do with motorcycle racing ... and you could get away with stuff decades ago (and be subsequently "grandfathered") that you cannot get away with today.

Not saying it can't be done ... just saying that we need to be cautious about the motorcycle-friendliness (or lack thereof) of any such design feature unless A LOT of thought is put into the design.
 
Loews Tunnel..

Monte Carlo isn't exactly an FIM certified circuit.

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You can get away with stuff for car racing, that you cannot do with motorcycle racing ... and you could get away with stuff decades ago (and be subsequently "grandfathered") that you cannot get away with today.

Not saying it can't be done ... just saying that we need to be cautious about the motorcycle-friendliness (or lack thereof) of any such design feature unless A LOT of thought is put into the design.

Agreed, although Hayden's incident at Aragon a couple of weeks ago show even modern tracks aren't perfect.
 
You can get away with stuff for car racing, that you cannot do with motorcycle racing ... and you could get away with stuff decades ago (and be subsequently "grandfathered") that you cannot get away with today.

Not saying it can't be done ... just saying that we need to be cautious about the motorcycle-friendliness (or lack thereof) of any such design feature unless A LOT of thought is put into the design.

I 100% agree about grandfathering. There's no way Monaco would be allowed nowadays. Just like smoking. But people still drive the course and people still smoke. No ones twisting anyones arm to ride a circuit with a tunnel. And have you ever walked the course at Calabogie? HAve a look on the other side of the Armco along the front stretch and down thru turn 1. And hey, it ain't worth falling out over either. I'd ride it in a heartbeat. Even if I rode like a fanny in the entrance to the tunnel.
 
Agreed, although Hayden's incident at Aragon a couple of weeks ago show even modern tracks aren't perfect.

One could easily make the argument that Glenn Cauley's crash at Mosport this year is evidence that no one should ever race a motorcycle at that track.

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Oh for sure, i agree.

Calabogie is redflagged as unsafe, but is there any corner worse than turn4 at Mosport.
 
It is all a matter of degree. Incidents can happen at any racetrack, it is inherent in the activity. But at least, the design features of the facility shouldn't present an undue risk on their own.

Calabogie was originally designed by "car guys". It was not designed to have motorcycle racing on it. At a track day, things can be done ... people can take a notch of aggressiveness off at certain areas of the track, or organizers can enforce "no passing" zones, or organizers can put down hay bales or cones to slow people down ... seen this done at a track day at Mont-Tremblant, which is not the safest track for motorcycle racing, either.

Mosport was originally designed decades ago, before any thought was put towards safety at all. Safety at that time was simple, "don't crash". Many, MANY improvements have been made since then.

Basic motorcycle track design safety: You don't put fixed obstacles in the expected trajectory of bikes and riders sliding off the track. Nor do you allow bikes and riders sliding off the track, to go over a cliff that is within their expected trajectory. Nor do you allow bikes and riders sliding off the track, to reach another portion of the track with cross traffic on it. All are potential issues with either the lower or upper level of a bridge/tunnel.

The words "expected trajectory" don't preclude one-in-a-million incidents from happening and you cannot design for those incidents. You design for the way things go down 99+% of the time. If there is a wall or a cliff face or a tree within that zone that includes the trajectory from (say) 99% of crashes, there is a problem with the design, because that obstacle is going to get hit, frequently ... The FIM rules address all of these requirements - how much run-off distance, related to what the radius of the corner is (which is related to the speed through the corner), etc.

Both Shannonville and Cayuga have concrete walls on the outside of a corner, which is not the best, but what saves those corners from being much worse than they are (I've seen bad things happen at Shannonville corner 14) is that they are both on slow corners and they are both lined with lots and lots of haybales or air fence. The "expected trajectory" is a lot shorter on a slow corner. Some years ago, the inside of the pavement was brought in at Shannonville to make the corner even tighter and encourage riders to take a path that aimed them more down the straight and less towards that wall (and this worked - riders hitting that wall happens much less than it did before). And years before that, the old (original) Nelson track used what is now an access road, as the main track. That layout had riders aimed straight towards that wall in a braking zone ... Nowadays, you just don't do that.
 

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