BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Or do as the Republicans in the USA… or as the Nazi propaganda specialists…
Repeat a lie enough times it eventually becomes the truth for many people.
Canada Post - Huge losses
- Thread starter raginduck
- Start date
Repeat a lie enough times it eventually becomes the truth for many people.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Then everyone in outlying communities no longer has access to mail services, unless courier companies drastically expand their services - which would also be at astronomical costs.
If a company with an established mail system purchases CP (i.e. DHL), they may be able to make a go of it.
TBH, Canada is a unique country for mail services. Our country is MASSIVE. That alone makes transportation of mail cost a huge amount more.
Germany, which can fit into Ontario about 5x, charges $2.38 (after conversion) for a letter. Canada Post, charges $1.15.
You do the math.
Unless the political thumb of government is leaning on CP, that makes no sense to me. If it is private and has a monopoly, jack rates. Even at $5 a letter, there wouldn't be much competition. Sure, volume would drop but sell that as an eco win. If it's not worth $5, it probably wasn't worth mailing in the first place. Start getting closer to $10 and competitors will figure out how to undercut.
Yeah, doubling or tripling the cost of lettermail isn’t going to impact Joe citizen in any way really in the grand scheme but can only potentially help the situation at hand. It’s really foolishly cheap at this point.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I don’t think there is a strong union argument on propaganda. CPC operates in a competitive space, competing against companies with unions that collaborate with their employers for mutual success. CUPW is asking for a 20% raises for workers that already out earn more efficient competitors. Double the market compensation for unskilled wages and more thanRefusal to change routing because it interrupts the traditional 5 hour work day for tenured carriers?
As every competitor’s workforce becomes more efficient, CPC’s is slipping backward. 15% increase in staff and 50% decline in packages/main over the last contract period is scary. Do the math on efficiency - it’s not like golf — low scores don’t win.
At the end of the day this is a govt owned business. Like Air Canada, PetroCan, and Ontario Hydro - there comes a time when the private sector should take over. That day in here.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
OK… a few things to consider here.
CUPW have not has a raise in 6 years. We deserve a raise.
We start at something like $21/hour. If you’re lucky enough to stay in 1 staff grouping for your entire time at CP, you can make up to $31/hour after 7 years… Your wages do not move whatsoever until you a permanent hire, which usually takes 2+ years. Your tenure starts then. So it’s about a 9 year progression (under optimal conditions) to get to $31.
I’m asking you directly - does $31/hour seem unreasonable for 9 years of very physical labour? What do construction workers make? How about people working the line at Toyota? CUPW workers deserve that.
5 hour work days are a thing of the past for full time letter carriers. Get over it. You mentioned someone you knew was done after 5 hours, 20 years ago. That’s simply not the case any more.
As for staff increases, the Guelph depot hired 3 new supervisors - bringing it to a total of 9, not including senior management. 20 years ago, there were 5 supervisors with 25 more posties. You tell me what’s being inefficient here. It’s not the letter carriers.
Posties have been cut to the bone. Management has swollen massively.
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Malks
Well-known member
I believe $31/hour is very good money to deliver the mail. I also do not believe delivering mail is as physically demanding as working in construction, or on an assembly line where the work is non-stop and you are under the watchful eye of your employer every minute of the day.
I agree that the starting wage should be a little closer to the $31 level because these workers are doing the same job. However, I also believe that those making the higher end of the pay scale are well compensated to deliver flyers to my superbox.
Canada Post is in severe need of a complete overhaul, from the top down. If they don't make drastic changes now, they are doomed.
What is the real wage probably in the 60 dollar range. Would posties be happy with 35 and no pension etc.
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Like health care, Canada does a poor job of communicating what things cost. The employee sees the hourly rate. They don't see total comp unless they actively seek it out (and even then it can be hard to come up with). I wish each health care visit in Ontario came with a bill showing what it cost (paid by province not patient). That may make some people question whether society benefited or lost by their visit. Similarly, if employee got a summary at the end of the year of total comp, it would open many eyes.
It is easy, at those hourly wages it should not be too hard to find a labour or delivery job somewhere else that pays more, so why not? It is sort of a free market economy thing, supply and demand. If Canada Post had a real labour shortage, like any company that experiences such a thing, they would have to re-evaluate compensation. If everyone just sticks around, then supply and demand is in equilibrium more or less.
Now the possible reasons people aren't leaving to those "higher paying" jobs...
-Those above jobs that pay more hourly don't come with DB pensions, similar benefits (if any), etc. so total compensation is less.
-Job security may be much lower in those alternative jobs (at least historically, but CP will likely be much smaller out the back side of this).
-Maybe real world those above higher paying jobs are harder to get so most alternatives don't actually pay more hourly.
-Finally, Newman and Cliff were dead sexy on TV and posties are living their dream. /s on that one.
Now the possible reasons people aren't leaving to those "higher paying" jobs...
-Those above jobs that pay more hourly don't come with DB pensions, similar benefits (if any), etc. so total compensation is less.
-Job security may be much lower in those alternative jobs (at least historically, but CP will likely be much smaller out the back side of this).
-Maybe real world those above higher paying jobs are harder to get so most alternatives don't actually pay more hourly.
-Finally, Newman and Cliff were dead sexy on TV and posties are living their dream. /s on that one.
Just announced that the feds have ordered an end to the strike.
Not sure why it matters at this point, Christmas is lost, and any negotiated settlement now is probably just kicking the can down the road on CPC going belly up…..
<shrug>
Not sure why it matters at this point, Christmas is lost, and any negotiated settlement now is probably just kicking the can down the road on CPC going belly up…..
<shrug>
sburns
Well-known member
This thread is starting to feel like riders criticizing Harley Davidson bikes who never owned them, stating they leak oil all the time...
There are some valid points, but overly criticizing the workers is a little unfair.
No I am not in favour of 100k burger flippers but I'm sure there is some middle ground, as life in Canada has gotten much more expensive in just the past few years. Never mind that jerk in Ottawa wanting to make it more expensive this coming April.
More fun times ahead.
There are some valid points, but overly criticizing the workers is a little unfair.
No I am not in favour of 100k burger flippers but I'm sure there is some middle ground, as life in Canada has gotten much more expensive in just the past few years. Never mind that jerk in Ottawa wanting to make it more expensive this coming April.
More fun times ahead.
I think the issue is that the perception is that majority of postal workers are making more money than the average Joe, and were asking for a 24% (now 19%) raise over 4 years.
It basically makes the general population laugh 'you have it better than most, and want more' type of attitude.
The fact that the union is making demands like 19% pay increase, 7(?) weeks vacation, more sick days, more more more when CP is bleeding money is ridiculous and will never find support with the general population because they already have it better than most (depending on how you skew reality).
CP is dying. The union just gave them a death blow.
See my earlier comments about a reasonable union giving and taking, versus just taking constantly.
I think the issue here, from what I observed, is that CUPW wasn’t willing to acknowledge change was necessary and inevitable for the survival of CP. I know that reality would probably mean some unliked changes and such, but it doesn’t mean it’s not reality nonetheless.
If my own union hadn’t been willing to step back and look at reality (and give and take accordingly) back in the big 2008 upheaval for one example, I probably would have been out of a job as my company wouldn’t have survived. But we negotiated and met in the middle and here I am 16+ years later still at the same place, still enjoying better than average working conditions and pay, having a pension, etc.
As the old saying goes, sometimes it’s best to not bite off your nose to spite your face.
That makes sense from the employee perspective. From a union perspective and especially a pseudo publc sector union, go all in every time. The public purse is unlimited and only once has their been major repercussions (atc in 1981). Those are exceedingly good odds.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
$31 is good money for sure. But again, it takes a LONG while to get there.
As for not being as physically demanding, I disagree 100% with you - for the foot delivery carriers. Walking 24-32km+ a day, carrying 35 pounds of mail up and down stairs. I would reload the mail bags about 8-13 times a day depending on the mail and junk mail volumes. For some absurd reason people seem to think that we leave the depot in the morning and that's all the mail we deliver all day.
My old route had 170(!!!) stories of stairs a day. The main deck of the CN Tower is 155 stories.
You tell me that's not physically demanding. If you still stick by that, I humbly request that you come with me on a route some day and do all the stairs, hills etc with me. You will very quickly find out the work is 100% non-stop as well.
Don't forget, we also do it in all weather conditions. 35c to -35c. Rain. Sun. Snow. etc etc.
I will agree that the mobile (van) routes are not as physically demanding as construction, as you're not having to carry the weight nor walk near as far. Some mobile routes do have pieces that need foot delivery, but that's maybe 5-8km a day with the rest being to super boxes.
Not really a end back to work with the old contract they have until the end of May to get a agreement.
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The problem here (and almost every other company / discipline) is the same.
We have the group that feels they deserve more (I sure feel like I deserve more), and people that feel like I make too much money for my role.
Everyone is the same, and I've never met anyone that said 'you know...I make more than enough, no need for more' and people that say different are typically just saying that but wish they would get more.
But asking for 7 weeks vacation? Demanding that CP follow a certain path moving forward....
sorry union, you're over stepping when you direct the corp on how to proceed.
We have the group that feels they deserve more (I sure feel like I deserve more), and people that feel like I make too much money for my role.
Everyone is the same, and I've never met anyone that said 'you know...I make more than enough, no need for more' and people that say different are typically just saying that but wish they would get more.
But asking for 7 weeks vacation? Demanding that CP follow a certain path moving forward....
sorry union, you're over stepping when you direct the corp on how to proceed.
I’m not anti union , but nor am I a union supporter. I liken many to a legal version of organized crime . I watched Oakville Hospital , one of the last holdouts go union . After a decade many nurses wondered what they had done. Dad worked a union gig at Goodyear tire , they would give lots of overtime knowing the strike was coming and build inventory in public warehousing, strike would come and everyone would sit out for three months , company still shipped product from remote warehouses, they would settle and it would take three years to gain back what you left on the floor for three months . Rinse and repeat.
I’d like to see a National postal service survive , but we all know a house cleaning is in order , but I don’t believe the current management would participate. Bring in Elon !
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I’d like to see a National postal service survive , but we all know a house cleaning is in order , but I don’t believe the current management would participate. Bring in Elon !
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
Lots of people think that certain jobs are not physically demanding or wear you out or break you, but reality is most have never done them.
People think that truck drivers have an easy life as all we do is “just sit there”. They don’t understand the rigors of the job that in some segments involve climbing onto and around your equipment in all weather conditions (you try climbing up 13’ in a snowstorm to tarp a load or shovel the roof of your trailer, **** happens), fighting with frozen or wonky equipment, or just the plain beating your body takes from decades of banging and smashing around in that cab because a truck doesn’t ride like people’s Cadillac’s and Lexus’s, something nobody that hasn’t done the job even remotely comprehends.
That **** takes a real toll on your body. After 3 decades in the industry with worn out shoulders, a bad back, pain everywhere, and nerve issues courtesy of the back thing, I’m a poster boy for it all. But people think it’s easy. Because they’ve never done it for a few years.
People think horseback riding is easy too because “all you do is sit there and the horse does all the work”. Anyone who’s actually taken real riding lessons (not a “sack of potatoes follow the horse in front of you at a walk trail ride”) knows the reality is very, very different.
People think that truck drivers have an easy life as all we do is “just sit there”. They don’t understand the rigors of the job that in some segments involve climbing onto and around your equipment in all weather conditions (you try climbing up 13’ in a snowstorm to tarp a load or shovel the roof of your trailer, **** happens), fighting with frozen or wonky equipment, or just the plain beating your body takes from decades of banging and smashing around in that cab because a truck doesn’t ride like people’s Cadillac’s and Lexus’s, something nobody that hasn’t done the job even remotely comprehends.
That **** takes a real toll on your body. After 3 decades in the industry with worn out shoulders, a bad back, pain everywhere, and nerve issues courtesy of the back thing, I’m a poster boy for it all. But people think it’s easy. Because they’ve never done it for a few years.
People think horseback riding is easy too because “all you do is sit there and the horse does all the work”. Anyone who’s actually taken real riding lessons (not a “sack of potatoes follow the horse in front of you at a walk trail ride”) knows the reality is very, very different.
