Caledon Noise Bylaw for motorcycles

[djltoronto]

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That is the same way Edmonton wrote their bylaw. My stock ZX10R will fail because it's louder than 96 dBA (by a lot) when the engine is bouncing off the rev limiter. I would wager that virtually all stock motorcycles would fail that.

The implementation has to be according to J2825 and nothing else. The J2825 standard was written the way it was for good reason, and writing the bylaw to be more stringent than J2825 is an opening for abuse.

Turbo - your thoughts on BrianP's post? I tend to think he's correct in his assumption that virtually all stock motorcycle will fail - when bouncing off the rev limiter of course.

If Edmonton is to be used as a template, and they aren't following J2825, aren't we just heading down the wrong path again?

As a result, it's pretty much a given that noise bylaws are going to happen, especially now that Edmonton has laid out a template for other municipalities to follow. And like any other restrictive law or bylaw, it's come about because of the excesses of a few.

 

[turbodish]

Turbo - your thoughts on BrianP's post? I tend to think he's correct in his assumption that virtually all stock motorcycle will fail - when bouncing off the rev limiter of course.

If Edmonton is to be used as a template, and they aren't following J2825, aren't we just heading down the wrong path again?

Right now there is no path at all being followed.

Despite the assertion that "virtually all stock bikes will fail", the Edmonton bylaw as implemented has not seen an 100% failure rate of loud bikes tested.

Since July 1, a squad has gone out once a week targeting noisy bikes in problem areas like Whyte Avenue, Jasper Avenue and Groat Road.

Of the 216 "suspect" bikes tested, 64 or 30% have failed and some of those bikes were issued tickets, Horne said.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/08/17/15053766.html

That suggests that the prescribed limits and testing procedures are generous enough to avoid all but the worst of the worst.

A CBC story quoted the cops there about how they would do their testing:

On Thursday, police demonstrated how they plan to enforce the bylaw.

Edmonton police officers tested one of their own motorcycles for the media. (CBC) The sound meter will be set up 50 cm away at a 45 degree angle from the motorcycle's exhaust system. They will take one reading when the driver idles the motorcycle, and then another when the engine is revved to benchmarks of 2000 and 5000 rpms.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/s...torcycle-noise-enforcement.html#ixzz0ziAMQwr1

From the sounds of it, they sure aren't testing bikes while pinging off the rev limiter, although maybe there should be an upper noise limit for that as well to restrict the amount of noise that a bike is capable of producing.

 

[CanadianBiker]

I just wrote to the Mayor and Council of Caledon and outlined my concerns with the proposed by-law. I also CC'd the OPP Detachment Commander, since it's her people who will have to enforce it.
If anyone else here lives or works in Caledon, I would urge you to do the same. Or even if you're a frequent visitor (other than tearing up and down FOTC, then leaving); the guy who rides on Sunday morning also comes back Saturday to shop, golf, dine, etc.
It goes without saying that emails should be polite, succinct and in the Queen's English (no 'brahs on Gixxers'). And yes, spelling counts, it goes to credibility.
Email addresses for the Mayor and Council can be found here: http://www.town.caledon.on.ca/townhall/council/

 

[TwistedKestrel]

From the sounds of it, they sure aren't testing bikes while pinging off the rev limiter, although maybe there should be an upper noise limit for that as well to restrict the amount of noise that a bike is capable of producing.

Maybe they'd need it over there, but here that legislation would be redundant. If you were operating the bike/vehicle in such a fashion, you're doing something that would be chargeable under HTA 172 anyway.

 

[djltoronto]

That suggests that the prescribed limits and testing procedures are generous enough to avoid all but the worst of the worst.

What I'm getting at, is that we have an extremely vague law on the books now - where it's up the the discretion of the officer...

And the proposed law would have them follow most of the procedure set out in J2825, but still leave the upper RPM to the officers discretion once again...


And yes, there should be an upper limit to the noise level the bike is capable of producing - but it shouldn't be the same SPL as it produces at 4K RPM (or whatever the test should be run at)


The procedure should be written so that 2 different officers following the same procedure will yield the same conclusive results. If the test RPM is defined as "something above idle" - then you will never get consistent results.

In fact, those who try to follow and obey the law, won't know weather or not they are breaking the law - since there is no specifications.

Might get tested on Monday - and pass with flying colours, and then get tested on Tuesday by a different officer - and fail miserably (different RPM).



***EDIT*** just read the "revved to benchmarks of 2000 and 5000 rpms." Is that in the test procedure? or just what the reporter reported? If that's in the procedure - I have no complaints.

 

[turbodish]

***EDIT*** just read the "revved to benchmarks of 2000 and 5000 rpms." Is that in the test procedure? or just what the reporter reported? If that's in the procedure - I have no complaints.

That's what the reporter reported the cops as saying when they outlined the test procedure.

 

[djltoronto]

That's what the reporter reported the cops as saying when they outlined the test procedure.

One of the comments I found here says --> http://fightyourtickets.ca/noise-by-law-motorcycles-edmonton/

Road Glider says:
June 25, 2010 at 10:08 pm
Something that has not been mentioned here is fact that where it states that:

The Edmonton Police Services will charge violators at three (3) benchmark noise levels:

1. Violators in excess of 92 db(A) at idle for all motorcycles; or

2. Violators in excess of 96 db(A) at 2000 rpm for motorcycles having less than 3 cylinders; or more than 4 cylinders; and/or

3. Violators in excess of 100 db(A) at 5000 rpm for motorcycles with 3 or 4 cylinders

Nowhere in the bylaw does is mention 3 benchmark levels, it does not give the police discretion to differentiate between 2- 3- 4 or more cylinders, nor does it mention 100 db!! Police powers to do what they want? I don’t think so. This bylaw will be thrown out of court in my opinion.

And as the law is written, there is no 3 levels? just idle, and greater than idle?

THE CITY OF EDMONTON

BYLAW 15442

COMMUNITY STANDARDS BYLAW AMENDMENT NO. 2

Edmonton City Council enacts:
1. Bylaw 14600, the Community Standards Bylaw, is amended by this bylaw.
2. Section 13 is amended by adding after clause (c):
(c.1) “motor cycle” has the same meaning as in the Traffic Safety Act, as amended;
3. Section 13 is amended by deleting clause (e) and inserting:
(e) “sound level meter” means a device used to measure sound pressure which meets the American National Standards Institute S1.4-1983(R 2006), or the International Electro-Technical Standard No.123, or the British Standard no. 3539 Part 1 or the U.S.A Standard S1.4-1961
4. Part III is amended by adding after section 18:
18.1 A person shall not operate a motor cycle that is capable of:
a) emitting any sound exceeding 92 db(A), as measured at 50 centimetres from the exhaust outlet, while the engine is at idle; or
b) emitting any sound exceeding 96 db(A), as measured at 50 centimetres from the exhaust outlet, while the engine is at any speed greater than idle.

 

[djltoronto]

It's as if the media is selling/telling the public one thing... but the actual bylaw is completely different.

 

[GreyGhost]

Right now there is no path at all being followed.

Despite the assertion that "virtually all stock bikes will fail", the Edmonton bylaw as implemented has not seen an 100% failure rate of loud bikes tested.

That suggests that the prescribed limits and testing procedures are generous enough to avoid all but the worst of the worst.

A CBC story quoted the cops there about how they would do their testing:


From the sounds of it, they sure aren't testing bikes while pinging off the rev limiter, although maybe there should be an upper noise limit for that as well to restrict the amount of noise that a bike is capable of producing.

I helped Brian test his bikes. The 125RR with stock pipe would fail the Edmonton bylaw as written (mainly because of engine noise, not exhaust noise). If the police are not failing almost 100% of the tested bikes, that means they are not applying the bylaw as written. There was a comment that they were educated in J2825, so maybe the police have taken it upon themselves to fix the politicians mistakes, but the law as written is horrendous.

I would bet money that the police are enforcing something very close to the real J2825 (or if they are trying to enforce the law as written, something has gone horribly wrong with their test method).

 

[turbodish]

One of the comments I found here says --> http://fightyourtickets.ca/noise-by-law-motorcycles-edmonton/

And as the law is written, there is no 3 levels? just idle, and greater than idle?

Bylaws rarely include procedural minutia pertaining to enforcement.

The enabling bylaw outlining amendments to the current noise bylaw states the following:

• The identified equipment and decibel levels are consistent with the proposed standards developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers called the ‘SAE J2825’. The SAE J2825 has been proposed as the standard for any national, provincial or municipal legislation to deal with excessive motorcycle noise in Canada through the Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators and the Motorcycle and Moped Industry Council of Canada.

• Edmonton Police Service indicate they are in the process of developing the necessary policy to govern enforcement procedures and standards. If the Community Standards Bylaw is amended by Council, a public awareness and education program will follow.

Between that and the quotes from police when actually doing the testing, it certainly appears as if they have adopted the 2000 rpm and 5000 rpm measurement benchmarks when measuring noise above idle.

 

[Gnu]

They will take one reading when the driver idles the motorcycle, and then another when the engine is revved to benchmarks of 2000 and 5000 rpms.
From the sounds of it, they sure aren't testing bikes while pinging off the rev limiter, although maybe there should be an upper noise limit for that as well to restrict the amount of noise that a bike is capable of producing.

Most big twins redline at 5k so they would be "pinging off the rev limiter".

 

[Rixter]

Check out this vid on youtube on how the SEA j2825 test is done.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KdYUhH3JSo"]YouTube - How to Perform a SAE J2825 Motorcycle Sound Test[/ame]

 

[turbodish]

Most big twins redline at 5k so they would be "pinging off the rev limiter".

Nope.

Caledon is looking to emulate the Edmonton bylaw. It tests for 92 db at idle for all bikes, and measures again at 5000 rpm for 3- and 4-cylinder bikes with 100 db allowed, and 2000 rpm for 2-cylinder and 5+ cylinder bikes with 96 db allowed.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Nope.

Caledon is looking to emulate the Edmonton bylaw. It tests for 92 db at idle for all bikes, and measures again at 5000 rpm for 3- and 4-cylinder bikes with 100 db allowed, and 2000 rpm for 2-cylinder and 5+ cylinder bikes with 96 db allowed.

OK, so now I'm going to have to buy an extra 50 dB, for my 650 twin that redlines at 11K rpm. Maybe just take the pipe off........?

 

[AFJ]

As of today at 1 pm, Caledon council members have been advised by their legal department that the motorcycle noise bylaw should follow the standards allowed by the SAE J2825 document (92 dBA at idle, 96 dBA at 2000 RPM for 1,2, 5, and 6 cylinder motorcycles and 100 dBA at 5,000 RPM for 3 and 4 cylinder bikes.)

Previously, they were proposing 92 at idle and 96 dBA at any RPM above idle which is inconsistent with the ECE41 test which all bikes sold in Canada have had to meet since 1983. That 96 dBA at any RPM would have meant tickets for a lot of stock late model bikes.

AFJ

 

[djltoronto]

As of today at 1 pm, Caledon council members have been advised by their legal department that the motorcycle noise bylaw should follow the standards allowed by the SAE J2825 document (92 dBA at idle, 96 dBA at 2000 RPM for 1, 5, and 6 cylinder motorcycles and 100 dBA at 5,000 RPM for 3 and 4 cylinder bikes.)

Previously, they were proposing 92 at idle and 96 dBA at any RPM above idle which is inconsistent with the ECE41 test which all bikes sold in Canada have had to meet since 1983. That 96 dBA at any RPM would have meant tickets for a lot of stock late model bikes.

AFJ

Thats good news..

Just curious, if I was to ride a Suzuki RE5, would only the 92dBA at idle apply. Since there are no "cylinders" what RPM might the bike be tested?

 

[backmarkerducati]

Thats good news..

Just curious, if I was to ride a Suzuki RE5, would only the 92dBA at idle apply. Since there are no "cylinders" what RPM might the bike be tested?

Well I am sure that is a corner case they will not hav to deal with too often...but single rotor more than likely will be considered a single cylinder.

 

[iridebikes]

If these bylaws mean retards with open pipe cruisers getting tickets, Im all for it. Nothing worse than not being able to hear yourself think while one of those 'cool dudes' rolls by on his tractor making obscene amounts of noise.

As long as the tests are standardized, its cool.

 

[AFJ]

Thats good news..

Just curious, if I was to ride a Suzuki RE5, would only the 92dBA at idle apply. Since there are no "cylinders" what RPM might the bike be tested?

A test done to SAE J2825 specifications on a '76 Suzuki RE5 at the Paris Vintage Rally in June recorded 84 dBA at idle, 86.4 dBA at 2000 RPM, and 97 dBA at 5000 RPM. It had the stock original silencer/exhaust system. It met all the criteria.

AFJ

 

[djltoronto]

A test done to SAE J2825 specifications on a '76 Suzuki RE5 at the Paris Vintage Rally in June recorded 84 dBA at idle, 86.4 dBA at 2000 RPM, and 97 dBA at 5000 RPM. It had the stock original silencer/exhaust system. It met all the criteria.

AFJ

Why was it tested at 5000 rpms if it was done to SAE J2825 specifications?

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