BOC Hits 5%

[Mad Mike]

Is there? Or is it decent job shortage. We've turned into a service economy.
Canada is in better shape than most countries, we have resources, LOTS of resources... but traditionally we rape the wilderness and sell the spoils to China (recently) or the US, then buy back the finished product. Works great if your a miner, sucks for everyone else.
We NEED to make stuff, we NEED secondary industry.

I'm not sure how we do that.

To make things you need a labor force -- a resource. Like other resources (trees, rocks, oil, gas, fish, water, investment dollars....), that resource should be available, reliable, and productive. Canada is short of workers, and the pool of unskilled workers we have isn't all that productive. As an example, a widget I built in Ontario costs me $14.64 ($6.04 in steel + $8.60 in direct labor). I can buy that same widget from our plant in China for under $5, and land it in Toronto for less than $6.

I don't see a way of changing that.

 

[ToSlow]

I can see lots of consolidating loans CC debt and LOC in the near future. Hopefully the greedy banks will be fair and not hammer people to hard

 

[mimico_polak]

I'm not sure how we do that.

To make things you need a labor force -- a resource. Like other resources (trees, rocks, oil, gas, fish, water, investment dollars....), that resource should be available, reliable, and productive. Canada is short of workers, and the pool of unskilled workers we have isn't all that productive. As an example, a widget I built in Ontario costs me $14.64 ($6.04 in steel + $8.60 in direct labor). I can buy that same widget from our plant in China for under $5, and land it in Toronto for less than $6.

I don't see a way of changing that.

Well is it a case of 'no one wants to work' or 'no one wants to work for minimum wage anymore'?

Those are very different that sound similar...but there's a big difference. IIRC you and your company had trouble hiring people because every breathing body coming in wanted 25-30/hr as a start with no experience. Is that still the case?

My buddy said that guys coming in to his firm as all asking for stupid money, which isn't a problem in itself...it's just that they're useless, unreliable, and expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter.

 

[Mad Mike]

Well is it a case of 'no one wants to work' or 'no one wants to work for minimum wage anymore'?

Those are very different that sound similar...but there's a big difference. IIRC you and your company had trouble hiring people because every breathing body coming in wanted 25-30/hr as a start with no experience. Is that still the case?

My buddy said that guys coming in to his firm as all asking for stupid money, which isn't a problem in itself...it's just that they're useless, unreliable, and expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter.

Once CERB ended, wage demands went back to $20-22/hr for unskilled. We look for solid kids straight out of vocational high school programs.

I'd say work ethic is a challenge, our 60 year old guys will sweep the shop faster than the 20 somethings.

On a broader scale, unions are cannibalizing themselves. You see it in Vanvouver today, one of the least efficient ports in the world wants to be the highest paid! I seem to remember a vibrant auto industry in Ontario that went down that path.

 

[bitzz]

I say "No" to free drugs and paraphernalia.

We tried a "war on drugs"... and the drugs won.
Most drug laws were/are politically motivated. Cannabis was made illegal to demonize the Mexicans and blacks... and we wouldn't want hemp rope to jeopardize the sale of DuPont's nylon rope... even though hemp rope is better and longer lasting.
Watch Reefer Madness for a good laugh, it's even better when you're baked.

And I'm not THAT old, I am just a student of "Modern History"

I can see lots of consolidating loans CC debt and LOC in the near future. Hopefully the greedy banks will be fair and not hammer people to hard

That's the funniest thing I've heard this week... thanks for the laughs

 

[Mad Mike]

We tried a "war on drugs"... and the drugs won.
Most drug laws were/are politically motivated. Cannabis was made illegal to demonize the Mexicans and blacks... and we wouldn't want hemp rope to jeopardize the sale of DuPont's nylon rope... even though hemp rope is better and longer lasting.
Watch Reefer Madness for a good laugh, it's even better when you're baked.

And I'm not THAT old, I am just a student of "Modern History"


That's the funniest thing I've heard this week... thanks for the laughs

I dont think we a need an outright war on drugs, I'm not sold on the idea we need to make staying on free meth a thing.

I know a couple of nurses that work in drug rehab, they dont have many kind words for safe shooting ranges and free methadone.

I don't think numbers lie, free meth clinics do help some, but for the most part they are to addicts what a dump is to bears.

 

[nobbie48]

I dont think we a need an outright war on drugs, I'm not sold on the idea we need to make staying on free meth a thing.

I know a couple of nurses that work in drug rehab, they dont have many kind words for safe shooting ranges and free methadone.

I don't think numbers lie, free meth clinics do help some, but for the most part they are to addicts what a dump is to bears.

The safe sites and drug theory is that if the drugs are pure the addict will eventually go clean and not have the after effects of dirty needles and drugs with weed poison in them. The programs are in effect safe frying pans. The problem is they haven't done anything to turn down the heat under the pan. They've actually made it hotter.

When I was a teen growing up in staid Parkdale it wasn't unusual for a bunch of us to congregate on a front porch in the evening to hang out. One such evening I noticed two gals I didn't know, off to one corner in a quiet discussion. It turned out that they came along with the girlfriend of a buddy and one of them was consoling the other because the other one's boyfriend was on drugs.

My brain went wow, a friend's girlfriend's friend knows someone who knows someone who's boyfriend is on drugs. What's that? Five degrees of separation? Now you're in a cocoon if it's more than two degrees of separation.

Drug production and smuggling is a business. The best way to shut down a business is to destroy their client base. Who rents videos anymore?

You do that by giving the victims something to live for. How about affordable secure housing, a secure job, recognition instead of a number?

I had my first shot of morphine when I was 30 (Kidney stone) and I had never experienced such bliss. I could see the attraction so why not get hooked?

I had an affordable house, a wife (Also affordable) and a family on the way. Too much to lose.

 

[Baggsy]

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation is not pleased:

 

[GreyGhost]

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation is not pleased:

If you end bonuses at failing crown corporations, doesn't that mean you end bonuses at all crown corporations?

 

[AllistonGT]

Yeah it's all probably BS, gov feeding news stories, to make them look good. Neighbour was saying the other day people can't find work and it's tough out there. Another guy was telling me he's working 2 jobs to just pay for rent and feed himself. And a lot of the nurses he works with are doing the same on off hours.
And if there is such a demand for hires, not having a cover letter shouldn't be a problem.
It's f'd.

Other companies have, as of this week tried to pilfer a few of our employees offering more compensation. We gave a 10% raise across the board to keep them. Now we have to raise our prices to off set these extra costs. Adding to inflation. We aren't the only company facing this. It's happening everywhere.
Wages in the trades are going nowhere but up. The shortage is real.

 

[woot]

The safe sites and drug theory is that if the drugs are pure the addict will eventually go clean and not have the after effects of dirty needles and drugs

When I was younger, I was hanging out in an apartment with my crack/coke dealing friends. One of my work friend's had a girlfriend in the building and a group of work friends stopped into the crack dealing friend's house one Friday night. One of the work friends used the term "Crack head" in a derogatory way and was quickly rebuffed with "Don't knock it till you try it"

I recognized then that people who smoke crack like smoking crack. They need a reason to quit. I watched plenty of seasons of intervention on Rogers OnDemand before Netflix was a thing. The term that they often used for enabling mothers was "loving to death" which is exactly what the current drug strategy is doing. Zero times did the intervention work if the addict knew that there was a weak link to support them.

 

[timtune]

Yeah it's all probably BS, gov feeding news stories, to make them look good. Neighbour was saying the other day people can't find work and it's tough out there. Another guy was telling me he's working 2 jobs to just pay for rent and feed himself. And a lot of the nurses he works with are doing the same on off hours.
And if there is such a demand for hires, not having a cover letter shouldn't be a problem.
It's f'd.

I've heard people speculating that if you put up a "we're hiring" sign, ignore the flood of resumes then you can claim "can't find anyone time for cheap foreign workers" (can't confirm that of course)

 

[timtune]

I don't see a way of changing that.

We need to level the playing field. If it's made with slave labour and their toxic waste is pumped into a stream products can be very cheap. Our imports should be held to the same high standards as we have. Until china can up it's game we should have them black listed.
Unfortunately I think GATT prevents that.

 

[nobbie48]

We need to level the playing field. If it's made with slave labour and their toxic waste is pumped into a stream products can be very cheap. Our imports should be held to the same high standards as we have. Until china can up it's game we should have them black listed.
Unfortunately I think GATT prevents that.

Did the latest version of NAFTA force us to accept lower dairy standards from the USA?

 

[FullMotoJacket]

It was to do with tariff percentages, not standards.

That said, I'd hesitate to call any white liquids coming here from the US milk.

 

[Mad Mike]

I'm missing something on the (skilled) labor shortage, I was bored in march/april/may and sent out about 30 resumes ...All over the country, mining camp jobs in the middle of nowhere that very few people want to go(North BC/Alberta) oil rigs off the east coast, mechanic helper jobs in the yukon, etc etc and didn't get a word back from any of them. About 5 emails back saying not what they're looking for. One 30 minute online personality test for CP rail train conductor position, then silence. Not even qualified to hand a red seal mechanic his tools. Sad. Hear of so many other people getting flown out for interviews, moving expenses paid and what not and didn't even get as far as a zoom meeting interview. I will admit I didn't write a cover letter for each individual company but I thought if they saw enough on resume would contact me. Have also sent resume to Hydro one and other power companies about 10-15 times over the years, waste of time.

All these news articles saying companies can't find employees, makes me wonder if they even bother to check their online hiring portals.
Mechanical Engineering Technologist, oacett member. Glad I am not desperate for next paycheque and can make a living on my own.

Just because workers are hard to find, it doesn't mean employers are lowering the bar. When I'm looking at resumes, I read them all but, but sort to the best 5 for follow-up. If there is no cover letter, the resume would need to be a bullseye match to the job and the applicant would need rock star achievements to get an interview. Applicants that write a cover letter explaining how they fit the job always stand out. My experience is those who out-compete their competitors when applying are likely to do the same when employed.

Not the same for unskilled applicants, I find those evaluate better face to face.

 

[Mad Mike]

..
We need to level the playing field.

How? Meet somewhere in the middle?

How about the longshoremen in Ningbo who use advanced technology to be 3x as productive as the Vancouver port's workforce?

 

[shanekingsley]

Just because workers are hard to find, it doesn't mean employers are lowering the bar. When I'm looking at resumes, I read them all but, but sort to the best 5 for follow-up. If there is no cover letter, the resume would need to be a bullseye match to the job and the applicant would need rock star achievements to get an interview. Applicants that write a cover letter explaining how they fit the job always stand out. My experience is those who out-compete their competitors when applying are likely to do the same when employed.

Not the same for unskilled applicants, I find those evaluate better face to face.

I hired hundreds of employees and screened tens of thousands of resumes and I'd agree with everything here.

 

[Dresden]

My 1990 mortgage payment was about $2100, which is about $5100 today, for a crappy old house in Mississauga, that I paid $190,000 for.

Median income in Toronto in 1990 was 55k. It's $78,378 in 2022.

1990 payment was ~48% of total pre-tax income. Today for a similar home it's well over 100% and you would need a double income to afford that home PLUS (and this is key) $250K saved up.

Just for some perspective.

 

[nobbie48]

Median income in Toronto in 1990 was 55k. It's $78,378 in 2022.

1990 payment was ~48% of total pre-tax income. Today for a similar home it's well over 100% and you would need a double income to afford that home PLUS (and this is key) $250K saved up.

Just for some perspective.

Imagine if 1982 interest rates came back (23%) with today's prices. Roughly 2% a month interest, $2000 per $100,000 loan.