Biggest political lie

I'll leave that preogative to the original poster. :D

Do you not concede that your post which I was responding to, insinuated that Detroit's problems were caused because it was a liberal utopia. Here's another refresher just so we get the facts straight:

Originally Posted by Baggsy
How would you explain Detroit? It's been a Liberal Utopia since the '60s.
 
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I think the biggest political lie is that there is any difference between blue, red or orange.

All they want is power, and they'll tell whatever lies they feel like to get your vote. Anyone who thinks our government is looking out for anyone but themselves is an idiot. Canadian politics shows a lot of insight into how badly and blatantly a government can rob the public without consequence.
 
I think the biggest political lie is that there is any difference between blue, red or orange.

All they want is power, and they'll tell whatever lies they feel like to get your vote. Anyone who thinks our government is looking out for anyone but themselves is an idiot. Canadian politics shows a lot of insight into how badly and blatantly a government can rob the public without consequence.

Bingo, and you wouldnt need be an egghead achedemic to see that. Canadian political life is a decent paying (more so if you dont mind fudging some paperwork) job. Fairly low hours of committment , nice parties and paid committee work. For the next decade it wont matter who drives the bus, its a long way to the other side of the swamp we need to cross.

Canadians used to be a group that would dig in during crisis and not expect our gov'nt to save us. Something has shifted in the fabric and we have boobs lining up for a $25 grocery card for a 2 hr wait. Anybody here making under $12.50 an hr? The liberals put this program together on a napkin over cocktails without even attempting some arthemetic, if everyone that qualifies was to step forward the program would cost millions and Loblaw and cast of characters has offered up several thousand? How do we keep ending up here.

Couple more years of this and we wont need envy Germany, Belguim or Scandinavia, we will be them.
 
That's silly. Our government would never provide us with the quality of service that the Scandinavians receive.
 
Do you not concede that your post which I was responding to, insinuated that Detroit's problems were caused because it was a liberal utopia. Here's another refresher just so we get the facts straight:

Originally Posted by Baggsy
How would you explain Detroit? It's been a Liberal Utopia since the '60s.

No, I responded to your assertion that the biggest political lie was "that Conservative/Republican party policies benefit middle and lower working class people. "

Since it would be an enormous undertaking to prove or disprove your statement due to the previously mentioned world and social context, I chose instead to show that your unspoken corrollary, is as problematic.

It would be equally true if you had stated that the biggest political lie was " that Liberal/Democrat party policies benefit middle and lower working class people. "

So, no I don't agree with your proposition for the biggest lie.
 
IMO is that Conservative/Republican party policies benefit middle and lower working class people.

Ironically, they are the largest supporters of these political parties. I guess they believe what they are told that smaller government and lower taxes are the answers to their problems. In my view, Conservative/Republican party policies are looking after the wealthy and are responsible for the alarming decline of the middle class.

If these currently downwardly mobile groups would wake up to this, we could see the next French Revolution when the peasants decided to no longer accept the exclusion from wealth by the noble classes.

i imagine this will help you understand where I'm coming from.
You can not compare the Conservative party of Canada to the Republican party in the states.

I by no means am a fan of the Conservatives but the Republicans are the biggest cancerous, degenerates, ******* ****** bags in the entire world. They will end the world some day, I fear them more than the extremist in the middle east, those guys have declared their intentions to destroy the world but don't have the means, the republicans have or will have the means and will destroy the world while holding a bible in the hand.. hate them
 
Justin Trudeau is a Liberal.
 
The 2 biggest political lies are

1) Trickle Down Economics.

2) Anything that comes out of Rob Ford's mouth. The guy is immune to facts.
 
why do you even respond to Schnellers threads. theyre a half-assed attempt to sound smart and in-tune with politics.

ignore it, and leave his threads to die
 
I think the biggest political lie is that there is any difference between blue, red or orange.

All they want is power, and they'll tell whatever lies they feel like to get your vote. Anyone who thinks our government is looking out for anyone but themselves is an idiot. Canadian politics shows a lot of insight into how badly and blatantly a government can rob the public without consequence.

Couldn't say it any better then that. Not one party gives a flying fu** about any of us. If anyone thinks they do, they should go and see Mr. Ford for his drug supplier and join him on his binges.
 
That's silly. Our government would never provide us with the quality of service that the Scandinavians receive.

Yes Scandinavia its awesome, thats why the richest families like the folks that own Ikea dont live there anymore. But this thread is about the middle income earners and the low income earners and how they shall reap the benefit of a socialist system. We could truly benefit from a unified economy with our nieghbours, the free trade agreement has been stupendous, lets merge our money with Uncle Sam and the Mexicans. The euro has been a blessing to Greece and Germany, and Spain is kicking it hard.
 
I tend to go with conservatives when I vote, even though they are far from representative of my views, because in the end I want a government that just leaves me the hell alone.

I do not agree what-so-ever with any social conservatism, but if they are even fractionally fiscally conservative then it helps to keep their greedy paws out of my pocket.

Lately I have not even been a big fan of our universal health care. I had a strange medical issue where my vision was still perfect in each eye, but for some reason they weren't working together. I had minor double vision, headaches, dizzyness, etc.. I went to six different doctors here and none of them had a clue nor really tried to find anything out. Some didn't even suggest checking my eyes or taking my blood. All they care about is getting a patient's health card number so they can bill OHIP. Conversely, I have been to private clinics in Singapore and Indonesia who had 100x better service that here. Sure I paid for it, but I was in and out fast, had results fast, and had treatment fast. More than I can say for here.

If my vote would mean anything, I would vote Libertarian because that is what I want - a small government that I barely notice.
 
I tend to go with conservatives when I vote, even though they are far from representative of my views, because in the end I want a government that just leaves me the hell alone.

I agree. How's that been working for you?

It would be a happy day if we got what we wanted, but none of the governments I know are working for smaller government with less intervention.
 
I agree. How's that been working for you?

It would be a happy day if we got what we wanted, but none of the governments I know are working for smaller government with less intervention.

Since there is no alternative that is better, I'm much happier with the best of a bad lot.
 
I went to six different doctors here and none of them had a clue nor really tried to find anything out. Some didn't even suggest checking my eyes or taking my blood. All they care about is getting a patient's health card number so they can bill OHIP. Conversely, I have been to private clinics in Singapore and Indonesia who had 100x better service that here. Sure I paid for it, but I was in and out fast, had results fast, and had treatment fast. More than I can say for here.

.

I don't understand this, if your willing to pay for it and service is 100x better in Indonesia, the results are fast, treatment is fast, you could have flown to Indonesia and been treated and home in a fraction of the wait time you would have to put in to see a specialist in Canada. Why are you taking up space in a waiting room when you have an option like that?
 
I had minor double vision, headaches, dizzyness, etc.. I went to six different doctors here and none of them had a clue nor really tried to find anything out. Some didn't even suggest checking my eyes or taking my blood. All they care about is getting a patient's health card number so they can bill OHIP.

This really caught my attention. I too needed the services of specialists. Waiting months for 15 min. time slot many times. Not treated as valued customer/patient. Bafflegabbed and lied to for the sake of billing OHIP. If you can't fix the problem at least discuss it with me like I'm human. Pretty disappointing. My view on certain aspects of the medical profession equals Shamans view of the police. I didn't always feel this way but experience teaches.
 
I lived in a truly Socialist country. And while some things were great, human greed made other things horrible. You cannot change the human nature, one of the most ingrained human natures is survival of the fittest, in one form or another.
Truly altruistic people cannot get into politics or position of power where they can do good. To get elected requires money and backing of heavy hitters to grease the wheels. No-one will back someone without promises of returns on that investment. They are all bought and paid for by one large corporation or another. That is why laws proposed and passed that truly enrage us and everyone ask "wtf, who wanted that" start to make sense.

You simply have to be a self serving weasel to get into and prosper in politics. The amount of wheeling, dealing and back room glad handing is sickening. Altruistic people who have a backbone cannot survive in such environment long.

As as soon as a person goes xxxx party is to blame, I file them under "intellectually lazy" who have bought the us vs them mentality needed to perpetuate the two sided politics.

In regards to xx socialist countries doing great cuz they are socialist. No, please educate yourself further why the have so called success and being label "socialist" is the least of the reasons.
 
I had my gallbladder out in 2008, spent 4 nights in the hospital getting bumped for whatever else came up while they took my blood every six hours, waking me up at 4am telling me that there was a cumulative possibility that a stone could drop into my pancreas, and I'd probably be dead before I knew it had happened, not that they'd be likely to save me even if I did. The last night they assure me that nobody stays more than 4 nights by some kind of office agreement, and yet I hear over a nurse's radio that they weren't going to take me just minutes later.

I grabbed my rack and (holding it over my head, something they hadn't seen before) walked out into the nurse's office and began telling them loudly that I'd paid 7 figures just in income taxes in my life and whether that matters to anyone or not, I damned well am demanding to have my well-being taken care of THAT night or I was walking out of the hospital right then and calling my lawyer; furthermore they'd best hope I didn't die or my instructions to him would be to use my estate to sue every doctor and nurse that was involved in my death, then give my settlement to a private clinic.

They put me into a surgery gown five minutes later. After my surgery, I was awake for 1/2 hour before they kicked me out of the bed. The nurse who had looked after me for three of the days I was there apologised to me that the system works the way it does, she was a bit appalled herself.

It's ridiculous. We pay all that money and most of it goes to just... beurocracy. Or to salaries for people that do nothing all day. The waste... the waste is ugly. Anyone advocating big government just doesn't have a clue. Government's job is to make itself bigger and more important (its definition, not mine) and it's ever been thus. Right now there are so many beurocrats and do-nothings in government... if you've ever worked with any level of government you know exactly what I mean. You have the police taking $100K+ salaries plus overtime now, you have doctors taking $500K+ salaries... thanks Liberals! I used to be a card-carrying liberal but now... the worst of it is that I hate Harper and his goons with a passion, so how to vote? :(

To get elected requires money and backing of heavy hitters to grease the wheels.

Yes and because those in power got there using money, they reject any attempt to end that practice. I think it absolutely should be a low-cost system that is funded by public money - and no other spending is allowed.

And by the way, why have they totally avoided using the Internet to self-govern or provide consumer-based voting services to give the common person a real, defined way to have an impact at little cost to themselves?

Because they don't want that. Those in power hoard power. I was involved in a project where a local politician was promising easy access, transparency and community discussion using the web, and the team provided them many features to allow that, including a discussion forum of sorts and more. It worked, she had people volunteering to "beat the street" to help. After getting elected, what did that politician immediately do? Shut it all down. I was skeptically waiting for it to happen but one of my friends who believed in The Process was devestated.

You simply have to be a self serving weasel to get into and prosper in politics.

This.

As as soon as a person goes xxxx party is to blame, I file them under "intellectually lazy" who have bought the us vs them mentality needed to perpetuate the two sided politics.

Also this. How many times have I had to say "I don't care about what party did it, it's got to stop!" and still been accused of parroting some party line of an opposing party. Intellectually lazy or brainwashed, I don't know. For some people, politics are as rational as religion: not at all.
 
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I lived in a truly Socialist country. And while some things were great, human greed made other things horrible. You cannot change the human nature, one of the most ingrained human natures is survival of the fittest, in one form or another.

True, you can't change human nature but I believe you can buffer the ugly side by teaching a higher moral code from birth. It's a band aid solution with some effectiveness. We should at least strive to live in a society where the weight of shame induces people to act correctly some of the time.
 
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