City through letting developers cut corners has allowed this city to go car free by allowing near zero car parking spots for condos.
Bikes are something we will have to live with.
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Bicycle Protests
- Thread starter nobbie48
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City through letting developers cut corners has allowed this city to go car free by allowing near zero car parking spots for condos.
Bikes are something we will have to live with.
That would be time constrained business meetings with golf clubs.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I think what we have is surging popularity meeting safety. A decade ago cyclists were fewer and less visible, so bad behaviour occasionally witnesses got a curse. Now we see it everywhere.
I sat on a patio eith my wife yesterday at King and Spadina. We counted flagrant traffic infractions at the intersection, bicycles not stopping was the most common. About zero bikes respected red lights, less than that stopped for load/unloading streetcars. I don't recall seeing lights on a single delivery pedelec (try pass that intersection non stop).
Cops on were enforcing the no-car thing on King, they didnt appear to be interested in cyclists acting badly.
I think the concern grows as as more people and businesses use bicycles. Building safer infructure contributes to safety, so foes safer operation. As bikes have gotten bigger and faster, the need for safer operation gets bigger too.
According to city's survey 23.5% of city golfers are making $150,000 a year or more.
With a total of 48% of city golfers on public courses making $75,000 a year or more.
Median income in this city is $85,000. So yes, it's still a sport primarily for the middle class and above.
Edit: A quarter (25.4%) of respondents didn't answer. So of those who answered 2/3rds fit the definition.
While our courses are loosing money but being untouchable budget items as there are enough public employees on the sunshine list who use these courses.
Although this is all off-topic.
Yup. As a city and province we should be ahead of this curve not behind it. As we are especially with regards to all these e-bikes.
Like the ones I saw this morning, while taking the kids to the ROM, jumping onto the sidewalk while riding to pick up Uber Eats orders at the McDonalds.
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Mad Mike
Well-known member
I don't buy that.
You keep blaming infrastructure as the reason cyclists run reds, stops and x-walks, pass streetcars while loading, run without lights, speed...
Maybe you could take each of those infractions and explain what type of infrastructure will drive better behavior.
Only one infrastructure method prevents that. Dedicated right-of-way for all street car routes.
On St Clair ended up costing $65 million plus an additional $30 million for non-transit related upgrades to the road ($15 million to bury hydro wires, $7 million for new streetlight poles and $8 million for road resurfacing and sidewalk reconstruction).
King, Queen, Dundas, College, Broadview, and Bathurst would set the city back another half a billion or more.
Which was one of the reasons to simply do the pilot project on King initially. As it is significantly cheaper.
justride
Well-known member
A bicycle being plated is not going to any more safer than one that is not. It is a Trojan horse in the making, promising Torontonian community safety. What lies inside are added cost to household, being pull over by police for expired plates, more, it discourages cycling, bigger local government, a foot in the door for insurance company. There are countries, I am assuming that ride bicycle on a larger scale than Canada without having plates and doing just fine. Happy that I don't have get all five of my bicycles plated like I have to do with my motorbike. Money in my pocket, less B.S is a good thing.
The city looked into it a few times. This reason was one, as enforcement was an issue, but will become less so as we automate basic traffic enforcement.
With every resident effectively having OHIP cards. Keeping an updated address book shouldn't be hard.
The second "think of the children" reason is why it was repealed in 1957. Which is why I am saying 18+ personally.
Nice generic golfer profile stats you pulled off Google, but they have nothing to do with the list of cars in the parking lot of the particular course you posted.
Now, here are the pertinent stats to what I posted. Don Valley has a 70 handicap ranking off the Blues. 6100 yds, with the longest par 5 @ 470 yds., it's your basic, run of the mill, short and relatively easy, municipal
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No that's directly off the city of Toronto's "Toronto Golf Course Operational Review" which includes a survey the city did of golfers using the city owned golf courses.
SunnY? Is that you?
I'll try to type slower. You play Glen Abbey because it's Glen Abbey. You play Don Valley because it's there.
Doesn't matter if it's out of desire or convenience. It's a pointless cost for the city that actually serves a tiny minority of the population. Both in terms of rounds played and who plays them.
You're obsession with why they play verses who ends up actually playing have nothing to do with each other.
Same can be said for bike lanes. What's your point?
There are 388,000 utilitarian cyclists in the city plus all the additional recreational cyclists.
Verses an average of 200 rounds of golf per course per day last year at Toronto golf courses per the city's Parks and Recreation Department.
The scale is massively different.
One can't compare to other countries without a full comparison. The GTA pushed bicycles off the streets in the first half of the 1900s and now have to make room where there is no room. The Netherlands never gave up their bikes so don't have to rebuild the infrastructure and attitude.
Slowing down ICE traffic isn't going to be easy. Time is money. People are expected to be there on demand.
Comparing lycra cyclists to the commuter cyclists is like comparing squids to rule following motorcyclists.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I don't have a problem with golf courses, hockey rinks, libraries and other civic recreational facilities.
City golf courses are revenue neutral, unlike rinks, libraries, and community centers. They are used by 200 golfers a day, provide green space, and practical use of whst is mostly floodplain kinds. They also get used by hikers and walkers for 5 mos of the year.
Not officially. The debate on multi-use during the off season and potentially during the golf season most recently came up about 6 months ago.
Trails specifically have been mentioned from time to time. Except for sneaking in during the dead of winter there is no regular access for hikers and people on walks through the ravine system.
Not to motorists in the core it isn't.
Only to their own self interest.
The reality is (using 2019 stats due to current WFH) with 1,569,800 jobs in the entire city, approximately 845,500 daily 2-way TTC riders and 388,000 who ride their bikes to work.
Eliminate those who get to work without their cars, eliminate commuters who come in from the 905 who don't matter. And there are less Torontonians driving to work the cyclists.
The same way 4,000 people a day golfing matter less then the 8,000 daily users of Bike Share let alone the total 388,000 daily utilitarian cyclists.
That's the reality that self-entitled motorists who think they own the road need to face.
Like hell there are almost 400,000 people riding to work daily. Probably an order of magnitude less than that on the best day and many days of the year, two orders of magnitude less. Probably three orders of magnitude less on a bad day. If you look at traffic counts, bicycles are at least a few orders of magnitude down from cars. I dont know where you got those numbers but they are pure fantasy. Sure, that many people may own bikes but a quick look in a condo bike locker shows that 95% of them are abandoned.
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