Art Students...
- Thread starter N3WMAN
- Start date
Motorcycle Mike
Well-known member
Wait. I'm going to watch Bloodsport, then I will be ready. Or maybe just a Clint Eastwood movie... you'll stand still and not block when I take a swing, won't you?
N3WMAN
Well-known member
I don't know about you but if I was a STUDENT trying to get a job/career i'd be working my *** off for little or no money to get as many possible additions to my portfolio and contacts instead of asking for money and connections to premiere design firms to be handed to me.
yep that's how they always get duped into doing **** for free... except it generally leads nowhere
You can build a portfolio for yourself without handing over free stuff to greedy companies. A portfolio demonstrates your skill and creativity, it doesn't have to be "real work" you're presenting to a future potential employer or client.
Business as usual would be the scam. When has the gov. ever been afraid to squander large sums of our money? Like a variation of the sponsorship scandal for example. This isn't it. In this contest I don't see the opportunity for individual politicians to line their associates pockets and kickbacks. If anything, they're doing it this way to avoid scandal.
How is this different from a normal bidding process on private and public tenders for work?
my company bids on a projects, spends thousands of dollars on their bid in terms of travel, man hours, marketing, etc only to find that we're not the low bidder.
winning bid gets the contract and all other bids are tossed.
marketing firms also bid on projects with their ad campaigns and many don't get them.
my company bids on a projects, spends thousands of dollars on their bid in terms of travel, man hours, marketing, etc only to find that we're not the low bidder.
winning bid gets the contract and all other bids are tossed.
marketing firms also bid on projects with their ad campaigns and many don't get them.
That part bugs me too. I'd probably choose to not enter or come to grips with the fact it's just a drawing and I have huge student debt.
ok...I'm not sure how design tenders are structured. Does the firm/designer keep IP rights?
the only reason I see that clause for is the artist/designer can't later on start charging for use of the logo. It's very specific for 150 years....not much else that it can be used for.
i still do not see an issue with this process and think the designers are just whining. Im glad they didn't open it up to big corporations and only allow students to submit designs.
The primary difference is that when you are bidding on something, even though it takes work to put that bid together, you are still bidding on future work (and if you don't win, the losses are absorbed by the business). In a contest like this, you have done 90-100% of the work, and you are independent, so the losses are your own. And you could crank out something in half an hour, but how would that hold up against someone who spent two days on it? A week? A month, etc
This is a good point - let's say that clause did not exist, and someone who felt they had put out a good design did not win the competition. The Canadian government is pretty big - they could try shopping around elements of that design for other branches, events, whatever. When you transfer rights like that, you would not be able to produce derivative work of that IP.
Also if they (the gov't) legally held the rights, then they WOULD be able to produce derivative works of that IP, and they could get that work done by people who are not you. And you would not see a cent ever.
Nobody is calling for an open contest where all entrants get paid, that would be insanity.
N3WMAN
Well-known member
You are not bidding on future work. you are bidding on one job with a set price. If you are not a large company the losses are absorbed directly to you. There is no real difference here.
The problem with that is who determines the value of a design/work. I could spend a week on something that someone else could make in 20 mins. Who decides that my work is worth more than someone elses based on time spent. I feel that valuation of work is one of the roots of the whole issue.
If I make a design that nobody likes and is not used, what is it's value?
I work for a defense contractor and we spend millions on bid proposals, RFI,s RFQs, live fire demos, etc, etc, etc.
If we don't win a contract we don't get paid.
I'm certain that if the Gov't went to some graphic design firm and paid a hefty fee for a logo the same students would be complaining that the government didn't open up the logo design as a student-contest.
Lots of contractors will provide free estimates for work a home owner may be looking to get done. Is it not normal to get quotes from several contractors? Is it not VERY normal? Is their time spent providing that quote any more or less valuable than a graphic design student? This is how the real world works, IMO, and the sooner these students understand that the better off they'll be.
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I'm certain that would not be the case.
Gov should rewrite the rules and make this more like a tender process if they wanna be fair about it.
How is the contest unfair?
Bidders in a tender process don't get paid unless they win. Entrants into the contest don't get paid unless they win.
It's not uncommon with graphic design and photography.
Certain contracts can be written in which the designer or photographer retains IP rights, others can be written so that the buyer assumes IP rights. It's pretty obvious that the Gov't wishes to buy the design from the winning designer so they can use it as they see fit without interference.
