http://www.thestar.com/iphone/news/...nada-let-caterpillar-strip-a-plant-clean?bn=1
they had no intention of staying here...
they had no intention of staying here...
Are Unions done?
- Thread starter SunnY S
- Start date
The workers at CAT are all unionized workers. That means that they signed a collective contractual agreement that binds them just as much as it binds the employer.
Their collective agreement will define what the company will have to pay out to the laid-off employees. The membership agreeing to that agreement when it was last negitiated effectively closes the door to any individual worker trying to sue for more in the courts.
Yes (except for the salaried folks).
Which makes even more sense for the workers to reject the new contract of 50% pay since if CAT would close them down in the future they would most likely recieve less severance.
DownUnder
Well-known member
So let's see.. You're not supposed to be able to eat or own a home unless both income-earners have Ph.D's, businesses were operating as charities for decades and not making any money at all , until the salaries finally got brought down to "reasonable" levels and then there are the high energy costs? I wanna hear what other excuses are out there and being swallowed while our salaries keep going to the crapper
Oooooh, this is fun..... VW, Ford, Nissan, and I believe Toyota has a truck plant down there.
I believe Bri is talking about VW bug?
.
Perhaps so, but those jobs wouldn't have been at the rates you stated. They'd have been at 50% of that.
What?
Back to page one. I presume that your comment was listing what the jobs paid, before the strike? The company was stating that they could keep their jobs, but at 50% of their then-current wage. It's clear that they wanted the plant closed and weren't serious about making a deal.
No, I've read the offer that was sent to EM's CAW workers. Those are the proposed new numbers presented by CAT. My numbers are accurate, the media's repeated use of "50%" is not.
of course, let's completely ignore the fact that unions typically are a rising tide that lifts all boats. the wages that are enjoyed at non-union shops are higher because of uaw/caw contracts. . .those employees at honda/toyota etc, would be making much less than they are in the absence of benchmark contracts.
so the actual reality of a completely non-unionized environment is not just lower salaries, but a continued downward pressure on all sectors of labour, and wages that won't just bottom out at $16/hr. . .
can anyone imagine what our economy will look like then?
so the actual reality of a completely non-unionized environment is not just lower salaries, but a continued downward pressure on all sectors of labour, and wages that won't just bottom out at $16/hr. . .
can anyone imagine what our economy will look like then?
How soon folks forget. I am not in a union, I have no real stance on the issue (except that they need to provide more flexibility in getting out the bad employees)
But remember, without them, there would likely be no north america middle class.
There may be a few corps that really value and would not abuse workers, but for the most part, the downward pressures would erode most of the gains that has allowed for the north american lifestyle.
Sure jobs may come back fron China if we all agreed to 50% of Foxconn like conditions but what is the point of even living then?
How about the boogeyman (Tarrifs) to even the playing field? You want to manufacture your cheapo crap in China, sorry, it will be subject to a tarrif in the good ole USA (I will be waiting for someone to throw down the "World Economy" and "Globilization" BS argument)
We should ALL be ashamed of the conditions we look sideways at to keep our prices so low. We are all brainwashed (and I am one of them)
But remember, without them, there would likely be no north america middle class.
There may be a few corps that really value and would not abuse workers, but for the most part, the downward pressures would erode most of the gains that has allowed for the north american lifestyle.
Sure jobs may come back fron China if we all agreed to 50% of Foxconn like conditions but what is the point of even living then?
How about the boogeyman (Tarrifs) to even the playing field? You want to manufacture your cheapo crap in China, sorry, it will be subject to a tarrif in the good ole USA (I will be waiting for someone to throw down the "World Economy" and "Globilization" BS argument)
We should ALL be ashamed of the conditions we look sideways at to keep our prices so low. We are all brainwashed (and I am one of them)
Another view of the CAT situation.
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1126643--olive-capitalism-s-ugly-face-in-london-ont?bn=1
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1126643--olive-capitalism-s-ugly-face-in-london-ont?bn=1
Agree entirely. While full out protectionism may be a bad thing, that doesn't mean that wide open free trade is ideal. There can be a middle ground and right now we are too far to the side of "open" markets.
Guess who benefits? Not the 99%.
so you want everyone wages to cone down?
We want cheap products, but we all wanna earn $35/hour for tightening bolts on an assembly line as 'skilled workers'... too bad, it doesn't work like that. That's why the North American manufacturing industry was exported wholesale to places like South America, China, Mexico, etc etc.
Please remember, though, that there were three parties to the deals that resulted in those wages; the unions, the employers, and the government. If the government hadn't given the auto makers the ability to so poorly under-fund their retirement funds, they might have fought a bit harder about the wages. The unions pushed for them, since everyone wants to make more money, but the other two parties GAVE them those wages.
DownUnder
Well-known member
Actually China is capable of making VERY high quality products that can rival US, Canada, Australia, German made etc.
I had a friend that moved his manufacturing there. The factories give you the options of making cheap crap or quality product. You can use cheap mild steel or medical grade stainless steel, you can use cheap bearings or top quality bearings, cheap metal or aircraft grade alloy stuff etc etc etc. They can reverse engineer a product down to the exact components, the exact amount of each and the manufacturing method used to create those be it metal or plastic etc.
The reason 99% of the stuff that comes from China is crap is because the Companies that set up there dont want to spend the extra $5/unit on stainless steel instead of mild steel or $0.50 on top quality composites or $0.05 on top quality fasteners etc. When your talking about an item that costs say $150/unit to mass produce the extra $7-10 to make sure its a great product seems too large of a hit for the "greedy" even though the retail price of the product may be up in the $500-$600 range.
This also comes down to the fact companies dont want their products to last forever anymore.
My point is, stuff that comes out of China isnt crap because the chinese dont know how to make good stuff, its crap because the multinational companies that set up there want maximum profit and dont want to make a great product.
